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By G. Johnston, P. K. Chatterjee, S. Holguin

M. Gershon The article is an excellent one, providing a basis for the conduct of the major tasks in underground mine planning and scheduling. I object to only one word. Since that word is featured in the title, it is a strong objection. The word used erroneously is optimization. There is no optimization performed in the article. By definition, an optimization is an approach that yields the best of all possible solutions. We can limit this definition to its narrowest sense, the optimization techniques of operations research such as linear programming, or broaden it to include less sophisticated search procedures that find the best mine plan or schedule. No such claim is made in the article. No optimization of any kind is performed. The major tool used is a simulation, which, in truth, is probably more appropriate for this problem than any optimization. But simulation does not optimize. It only allows for quick evaluation of many options, leading to the selection of the best plan "of those tried," not "of all possible plans." This article, of course, is not the first mining paper to make this error. It seems that the word optimization is used more to impress people than to refer to any act of optimizing. It is used in a way that implies "try to optimize"or "come close to optimize," but not to really do it. It is usually appropriate to quietly ignore this error. But when Dr. Chatterjee, who has done so much good work in true optimization projects and whose work I have come to admire, makes such an error, it is time to publicly dispute it. Having discussed this very point with him in the past, I am sure that he will agree. If he can support this position in his response, perhaps people will start to listen and we can reduce the number of false claims of optimization. This should be easy for him in this case since the approach he used, simulation, is the more appropriate one anyway.

Jan 8, 1988

By M. Gershon

The article is an excellent one, providing a basis for the conduct of the major tasks in underground mine planning and scheduling. I object to only one word. Since that word is featured in the title, it is a strong objection. The word used erroneously is optimization. There is no optimization performed in the article. By definition, an optimization is an approach that yields the best of all possible solutions. We can limit this definition to its narrowest sense, the optimization techniques of operations research such as linear programming, or broaden it to include less sophisticated search procedures that find the best mine plan or schedule. No such claim is made in the article. No optimization of any kind is performed. The major tool used is a simulation, which, in truth, is probably more appropriate for this problem than any optimization. But simulation does not optimize. It only allows for quick evaluation of many options, leading to the selection of the best plan "of those tried," not "of all possible plans." This article, of course, is not the first mining paper to make this error. It seems that the word optimization is used more to impress people than to refer to any act of optimizing. It is used in a way that implies "try to optimize" or "come close to optimize," but not to really do it. It is usually appropriate to quietly ignore this error. But when Dr. Chatterjee, who has done so much good work in true optimization projects and whose work I have come to admire, makes such an error, it is time to publicly dispute it. Having discussed this very point with him in the past, I am sure that he will agree. If he can support this position in his response, perhaps people will start to listen and we can reduce the number of false claims of optimization. This should be easy for him in this case since the approach he used, simulation, is the more appropriate one anyway.

Jan 1, 1987

By G. Le Bel

Discussion by G. Le Bel The paper proposes three methods to determine optimum lifetime of a mining project 1. The conclusion is that the three methods arrive at the same optimum production rate (by coincidence). It is also stated that: "The stochastic and option pricing models, in addition to providing a more realistic optimum mine life than the traditional NPV (net present value) calculation, showed that the example project has the potential for substantially higher return. By explicitly considering a project's potential risks, the stochastic or option pricing techniques can more accurately describe its probable investment performance." This discussion is intended to demonstrate that: •It is no coincidence that the three methods arrive at the same optimum production rate. • The stochastic and option pricing models do not provide a more realistic optimum mine life than the traditional NPV calculation. •The potential for a substantially higher return is misrepresented. First, a review of investment decision theory in mining is needed. Net present value is the preferred performance measure because of the flexibility offered when comparing various alternatives. However, it presents the following disadvantages: • The discount rate selection is not straightforward. • The NPV obtained represents a deterministic characterization of the variables included in the cash flow calculations, i.e. a single-point estimate. Discount rate selection The opportunity cost of capital represents the rate of return that would be obtained if the capital was instead invested in other opportunities considered to exist. Such opportunities must be bypassed if the available capital is invested in the project studied 2. If these other opportunities carry risk similar to the project under analysis (for example, if they are other mining projects), there is no need to add incremental [ ] risk factors. On the other hand, if these opportunities are represented by the acquisition of government bonds yielding 7%, a risk premium factor must be included. The types of risks associated with a mining venture are shown in Table 1. Together they represent the "business risk" of being a mining company. The individual project risk is important to investors if it differs substantially from the business risk of the company and that of the other investments in mining ventures that we must pass up to invest in this particular project. A risk premium or discount would then be required. This can be illustrated by the following example. Consider that a company has two investment alternatives: one is the Cavender hypothetical project located in Nevada, and the other is the same project located in a civil war zone of central Europe. The second project requires a risk premium factor on the discount rate. Conversely, a project showing highly uncertain returns that are negatively correlated with the returns of the firm's other assets may decrease the company's corporate risk. Deterministic character of NPV calculation The cash flows used in NPV calculations are obtained from a set of variables. These variables are estimated using one parameter obtained from the engineering studies. Each parameter is thus a single value that is often termed a "realistic" or "best estimate" as opposed to "optimistic" or "pessimistic." However, considering that each variable can assume a range of values between the

Jan 1, 1994

By N. D. Policow, J. S. Orphanos

D.A. Dahlstrom In the paper, a comparison was made between flowsheets using the screen bowl centrifuge and disc filters, respectively, as the primary dewatering device. The authors very effectively show that by raising feed temperature, mechanical dewatering is enhanced through reduced viscosity of the water. When a final coal moisture of 10% is required, the net effect of heating the feed is a reduction in thermal requirements because of the lower evaporated load on the dryer. The flowsheet comparison on this, however, was not completely correct. Disc filters do not generally utilize enhanced mechanical dewatering through increased temperature. Horizontal belt filters, through the optimal use of steam heating of the filter cake, have shown significant cost reductions over disc filters where steam is not used. In addition, the authors forgot to mention that there is a certain fraction of the feed that is so fine that it cannot be recovered by the centrifuge economically. That is the function of the filtration device shown in Fig. 4. In subbituminous pipeline coals, this fraction represents more than 10% of the feed. Even after flocculation and belt pressing, the moisture content in the fine fraction is 30%-40. Recent tests on a subbituminous pipeline coal slurry, compared an Eimco-Extractor horizontal belt filter with the screen bowl centrifuge flowsheet shown in Fig. 4. Mechanical dewatering was enhanced through the use of a steam dry zone after the initial dewatering zone. Vacuum pump horsepower was reduced by more than 50% through the use of condensors, and heat recovery was utilized to minimize thermal costs. Thermal drying to 10% moisture by weight was required in both flowsheets. The 0.5 wt% fines in the filtrate were flocculated and recycled to the filter, thus eliminating the belt press and solids mixers. When the three major operating costs (which normally account for 50%-75% of the coal operating costs) of steam, electricity, and flocculants at current prices were calculated, the flowsheets utilizing the Eimco-Extractor had cost savings vs the centrifuge flowsheet of 89¢/t (81o; per st) of surface dry coal. This advantage increases with increasing thermal and electricity prices. I congratulate the authors for the strides made with the screen bowl centrifuge. However, filtration flowsheets continue to be improved and their simplicity and low thermal and electrical requirements should not be so quickly dismissed. ? Reply by N.D. Policow From a technical standpoint, a number of extensive test programs have demonstrated that by raising the feed temperature, mechanical dewatering is enhanced whether it be centrifuges or filters performing the separation. Economic constraints usually become the over-riding issue. If an inexpensive source of thermal energy is available, i.e., waste steam, etc., the approach becomes commercially acceptable. For the specific case of coal slurry pipelines, since the dewatering plants will be located close to power generation stations, the preheating approach becomes especially attractive. The cost comparison shown in Fig. 7, which was prepared by a major West Coast engineering firm, contrasted screen bowl centrifuges and disc filters. In both alternatives, a thermal dryer was specified to produce a contract moisture of the final product. Sizing of the thermal dryer on the screen bowl alternative was substantially smaller than that of the filter, since the screen bowl was credited with a four to six percentage point decrease in product moisture compared to the disc. This comparison was made at ambient temperatures and reflected solely the mechanical dewatering capabilities of the two devices. No preheating of the feed was included in this particular comparison. Early generation screen bowl centrifuges operated under the principle of maximum bulk tonnage throughput. Second and third generation machines have followed the trends dictated by the coal industry calling for higher one-pass recoveries than previously demanded. The current generation of high-speed, long-bowl centrifuges permit recoveries of ultrafine solids directly comparable to commercial filter operation. On typical coal preparation plant feeds with nominal 600 E. an X 0 (28 mesh X 0) clean coal, recovery levels in excess of 99% are now obtained. The material that does escape the centrifuge and reports to the main effluent is typically -10 µm, high ash material. We have documented substantial beneficiation effects in screen bowl centrifuge performance with the cake product containing lower ash levels than the feed. On the referenced pipeline, coal tests performed on Western subbituminous coal, we found that the percentage of -10 µm material in the feed was six to eight times greater than normally encountered on eastern Appalachian seams. Our 45-t/h (50-stph) production centrifuge was never set up to maximize recovery. It was used as part of the two-stage dewatering circuit that had been chosen by designers of the proposed pipeline. Recoveries up to 95% were recorded. With field adjustments, that performance could most certainly have been improved. In contrast, manufacturers of the horizontal belt filter provided a small pilot-scale unit that operated on a side stream at the test facility. Numerous combinations of chemical additions were evaluated to determine those that had the best impact on filter performance. Whereas the screen bowl centrifuges operated without chemical addition, producing a dry, fluffy cake, the belt filter required two stages of chemical addition to attain satisfactory performance and high recovery levels. On the two-stage circuit that incorporated a belt press as the secondary

Jan 12, 1983

By V. Miller

C. Hertzler The difference of means of milling characteristics by rock and ore type is tested in a statistical manner in the paper. The null hypothesis being tested is that the sample means of two different populations are equal. It is assumed that the null hypothesis is true when performing the test. Because of this, acceptance of this hypothesis leads to the conclusion that the sample means of the two different populations are equal (or there is no significant difference between the sample means), not that the samples come from the same population, as the author asserts. Rejection of the null hypothesis leads to the conclusion that the sample means of the two different populations are not equal. A P value for this test is reported in Table 2 and is incorrectly identified as the probability that the two samples came from different populations. Actually, what was recorded was 100(1 - p) where p is the usual p-value. The usual p-value measures, on a scale of zero to one, the extent to which the data agree with the null hypothesis. It is the probability of observing a value of the test statistic (Z score) that is at least as contradictory to the null hypothesis as the one computed from the sample data (McClave and Dietrich II, 1982). The author makes no mention of the fact that were these tests to be conducted together, the chances of determining that the null hypothesis is not true when it is really true are increased considerably (Snedecor and Cochran, 1980). This is a multiple comparisons problem and should be dealt with accordingly. The usual methods involve adjusting the level of the individual tests. Table 2 reports an incorrect 100(1 - p) value in the comparison of concentrate grades for other rock types with .30 to .69 % Cu vs other rock types with .70 + % Cu; 86 % should be 98.6 %. Although the article can be criticized for poor data presentation and discussion of that data, the point the author makes regarding the use of these statistics in the ore reserve estimation process is well taken. It does not appear that inaccuracies in the statistical interpretations have hindered that usefulness. References McClave, J.T., and Dietrich, II, F.H., 1982, "Statistics," Dellen Publishing Co., San Francisco and Santa Clara, CA, 766 p. Snedecor, G.W., and Cochran, W.G., 1980, "Statistical Methods," The Iowa State University Press, Ames, IA, 561 p. Reply by V. Miller After reading Ms. Hertzler's comments, it appears that the differences noted were basically semantics. If the paper is ever presented at a math symposium, some changes will be needed. When deciding the best way to present the data to mining engineers and geologists, I decided that presenting the probability that the two sample groupings came from different populations (reverse to the Null hypothesis) was easier and would require less verbage to explain. Hence, the 100(1 - p) difference which was noted. Ideally, I would have preferred to give the recovery and concentrate grades, then comment which ones had significant differences. Unfortunately, Kennecott Corp. did not grant permission to publish the ore body's actual recoveries and concentrate grades. The conclusion is that there was, as expected, a relationship between the ore's geologic properties and the metallurgical properties, and by determining this relationship, the overall mineral model was greatly improved.

Jan 8, 1984

By M. R. Yalamanchili, J. D. Miller

Discussion by M.R. Yalamanchili and J.D. Miller The authors, M. S. Celik et al., should be recognized for their efforts to describe the flotation behavior of boron minerals. In the case of borax and other soluble salt minerals, analysis of the flotation chemistry has been difficult because of the high ionic strengths associated with these soluble salt systems. However, considerable progress has been made in this area, and recently a surface charge/collector colloid adsorption model was proposed by Miller and his coworkers to explain the collector adsorption phenomena observed in soluble salt flotation systems (Milleret al, 1992; Yalamanchili et al., 1993; Miller and Yalamanchili, 1994; Yalamanchili and Miller, 1994a: Yalamanchili and Miller, 1994b). In this work, the sign of the surface charge of alkali halides in their saturated brines was established on the basis of nonequilibrium electrophoretic mobility measurements by laser-Doppler electrophoresis (Miller et al., 1992). Generally, these results are what would be expected from the simplified lattice-ionhydration theory. This electrokinetic information coupled with the stability and prevalence of collector colloids in such soluble salt flotation systems indicates that the selective flotation of alkali halides is due to the adsorption of oppositely charged collector colloids by heterocoagulation. Experimental flotation/bubble attachment results for 21 different alkali halides (Yalamanchili et al., 1993; Yalamanchili and Miller, I994b) confirmed that the flotation response of soluble salt minerals with weak electrolyte collectors can best be explained by the adsorption of oppositely charged collector colloids rather than by the adsorption collector ions and/or neutral molecular dipoles as originally suggested by many researchers (Fuerstenau and Fuerstenau, 1957; Schubert, 1967; Roman et al., 1968). In addition, the flotation of certain alkali oxyanions (Pizarro et al., 1993) and double salts such as schoenite and kainite can be explained by the same collector colloid adsorption mechanism (Miller and Yalamanchili, 1994). The borax flotation results reported by Celik et al. need to be examined in terms of the above mentioned surface charge/ collector colloid adsorption model. Unfortunately, the authors seem to be unaware of this recent work that nicely describes soluble salt flotation with weak electrolyte type collectors such as amines and carboxylates. In view of our past work, the flotation characteristics of borax were of particular interest, and, in this regard, the results of dodecyl amine flotation of borax reported by Celik et al. have been examined in further detail in the light of experimental results from our laboratory. In our research, a vacuum flotation technique was used to study the flotation response of borax (Na2B407.10H20), which has a solubility of 39 g/L at 25 °C) with dodecyl amine hydrochloride as collector. These chemicals were purchased from Eastman Kodak and used as received. Saturated solutions of borax at desired pH values were prepared by continuously stirring the salt solutions over a period of about 10 hrs. It should be mentioned that the conditioning time to achieve equilibrium is an important variable and can significantly change the flotation response of some soluble salts (Yalamanchili et al., 1993). Collector was added to the saturated borax solutions containing about one gram of 100x 150 mesh borax particles, and conditioning was done for about 20 minutes prior to flotation. The borax flotation recoveries from saturated brine are presented in Fig. 1 as a function of collector addition at the natural pH of 9.3, as reported both by Celik et al. and as measured in our laboratory. In addition, the region of precipitation for the dodecyl amine hydroborate is included in Fig. 1. It can be seen in Fig. 1 that the flotation response curves are separated by about one order of magnitude in R12NH3CI collector addition. The flotation results of Celik et al. show that the maximum borax recoveries can be obtained below the solubility limit of the dodecyl amine hydroborate collector. However, in our experiments borax flotation seems to occur only after the precipitation of the dodecyl amine hydroborate collector as might be expected from the collector colloid adsorption model (Yalamanchili et al., 1993) if borax were negatively charged. Further analysis by nonequilibrium and equilibrium electrophoretic mobility measurements for borax indicates that borax is negatively charged at the natural pH of 9.3, as discussed below. The reliability of the nonequilibrium electrophoretic measurements has been demonstrated previously for alkali halides and alkali oxyanions (Miller et al., 1992; Miller and Yalamanchili, 1994). The equilibrium and nonequlibrium electrophoretic measurements for borax were found to be consistent and are presented in Table 1. These results provide clear evidence that borax carries a negative surface charge in its saturated brine (pH 9.3), and the sign of the surface charge of borax reverses and becomes positive if the pH is reduced to 8.6. The equilibrium between borax and its saturated brine can be described by the following reaction: [2Na2B407.1OH2O-4Na++B407=+HB4O7 +OH+19H20] It appears that the oxyanions of the borax lattice provide

Jan 1, 1995

M.S. Azun I have many objections to the content of the author's paper. Before discussing it, however, I would like to repeat the property of semivariogram function. Second order stationary properties of regionalized variables (ReV's) such as semivariogram function y(h) are perfectly known in geostatistics. Also, the kriging equations in the language of mathematical statistics using second order stationary properties are well understood. However, the way to use the sample (estimated) semivariogram function in any one of the kriging procedures is vague. The sample semivariogram function is given as follows: [ ] where N is the total number of samples, Xi is the sample value at the i - th location, Xi+h is the sample value at the i + h - th location, and h is the distance among the samples. An estimation variance of sample semivariogram function of first lag is smaller than that of higher order lag. The theoretical semivariogram function reaches the variance of samples asymptotically. But this is not easily observable because of the larger variation involved in the estimate of semivariogram function. In general, an estimation procedure is done for h = 0, 1, 2, up to the greatest integer less than N/2, even though sample semivariogram function can be computable through N-1. After estimating semivariogram function, the critical question of how to model sample semivariogram function arises. As seen in the above equation, sample semivariogram function is discrete and can be smoothed by the model being selected. Therefore, modeling of sample semivariogram function is the most important step in geostatistics. It not only smoothes a discrete function but also affects the results of the kriging procedure. When the only aim is to model the semivariogram function, which is the basic point of the author's paper, one can employ any fitting techniques, such as curve fitting, or any arbitrary functions, which are called submodels in the paper. The term "arbitrary function" is used rather than "submodel" because there is no basic understanding of developing them. The author suggests that the sum of those submodels can also be used for the modeling of sample semivariogram function. The combination of any arbitrary functions brings many problems instead of giving an insight of the domain structure considered. The author used two arbitrary functions and the nugget effect in response to sample semivariogram function (Fig. 10). For the same example, he stated that the parameters involved in the mixed arbitrary function model can be accepted when the discrepancy between sample semivariogram function and the model is small visually. For verifying the fitting behavior of any selected model, one should not be contented with the visual satisfactory. Some statistical measure such as goodness of fit has to be used. The author's practice is no more than an exercise in curve fitting without any fundamental understanding or conceptualization of the underlying physical mechanism. Furthermore, the selection of any model is not an easy task if the purpose is the search for the "best" response to the observed second order properties of ReV's. I suggest that the Markovian model (Azun, 1983), on the basis of a theoretical understanding of underlying mechanism, which gives more information about the occurrence of regionalized variables, is used to respond all properties of ReV's. There are a lot of problems for modeling of one-dimensional sample semivariogram function. Thus, it is not appropriate to go to higher order dimensional sample semivariogram function modeling. In the meantime, I would recommend that one can connect the values of standardized sample semivariogram function rather than simple values of semivariogram function in the two-dimensional estimation. The standardized values can be computed in dividing the semivariogram function value by the number of sample pairs involved in each lag regardless of the directions. In conclusion, geostatistics is an interdisciplinary area in mining that uses the principles of mathematical statistics. Thus, it should not violate any probabilistic and statistical rules. When Matheron was developing the theory of geostatistical study in the early years of geostatistics, many mining people had a reservation accepting the geostatistical tools. However, this does not mean that we, the geostatisticians, might try to convince those people using some "strange" tools or rules as some authors implied (Baafi and Kim, 1984). Instead, we have to develop and explain the geostatistical tools staying only in the framework of statistical concepts and properties. References Azun, M.S., 1983, "Stochastic Process Modeling of Spatially Distributed Geostatistical Data," Columbia University, Ph.D. Thesis. Baafi, E.Y., and Kim, Y.C., 1984, "Discussion - Comparison of Different Ore Reserve Estimation Methods Using Conditional Simulation," Mining Engineering, Vol. 36, No. 3, p. 280. Reply by J.M. Rendu The interactive method proposed by Rendu allows practitioners to develop semivariogram models that take into account not only the numerical information obtained by sampling, but also highly significant additional information that often cannot be quantified. The geology of the deposit - including hypotheses concerning its genesis, sampling methods, assaying methods, and mathematical methods used to calculate the semivariograms - all have an influence on the numerical results obtained and on how these results should be interpreted. If all the information concerning the spatial distribution of values in a mineral deposit was contained in the sample values, it could be argued that statistical techniques alone would produce optimum models. However, this is rarely, if ever, the case. Methods that allow the user to take into account his experience and his geologic understanding of the deposit should not be rejected for the sake of theoretical statistical purity.

Jan 11, 1985

By M. S. Azun

M.S. Azun I have many objections to the content of the author's paper. Before discussing it, however, I would like to repeat the property of semivariogram function. Second order stationary properties of regionalized variables (ReV's) such as semivariogram function ?(h) are perfectly known in geostatistics. Also, the kriging equations in the language of mathematical statistics using second order stationary properties are well understood. However, the way to use the sample (estimated) semivariogram function in any one of the kriging procedures is vague. The sample semivariogram function is given as follows: [1 N-hy*(h) = 2(N h) i21 {Xi-Xi+h}Z, h=0, 1, N-1] where N is the total number of samples, Xi is the sample value at the i - th location, X i+h is the sample value at the i +h - th location, and h is the distance among the samples. An estimation variance of sample semivariogram function of first lag is smaller than that of higher order lag. The theoretical semivariogram function reaches the variance of samples asymptotically. But this is not easily observable because of the larger variation involved in the estimate of semivariogram function. In general, an estimation procedure is done for h = 0, 1, 2,…., up to the greatest integer less than N/2, even though sample semivariogram function can be computable through N-1. After estimating semivariogram function, the critical question of how to model sample semivariogram function arises. As seen in the above equation, sample semivariogram function is discrete and can be smoothed by the model being selected. Therefore, modeling of sample semivariogram function is the most important step in geostatistics. It not only smoothes a discrete function but also affects the results of the kriging procedure. When the only aim is to model the semivariogram function, which is the basic point of the author's paper, one can employ any fitting techniques, such as curve fitting, or any ar¬bitrary functions, which are called submodels in the paper. The term "arbitrary function" is used rather than "submodel" because there is no basic understanding of developing them. The author suggests that the sum of those submodels can also be used for the modeling of sample semivariogram function. The combination of any arbitrary functions brings many problems instead of giving an insight of the domain structure considered. The author used two arbitrary functions and the nugget effect in response to sample semivariogram function (Fig. 10). For the same example, he stated that the parameters involved in the mixed arbitrary function model can be accepted when the discrepancy between sample semivariogram function and the model is small visually. For verifying the fitting behavior of any selected model, one should not be contented with the visual satisfactory. Some statistical measure such as goodness of fit has to be used. The author's practice is no more than an exercise in curve fitting without any fundamental understanding or conceptualization of the underlying physical mechanism. Furthermore, the selection of any model is not an easy task if the purpose is the search for the "best" response to the observed second order properties of ReV's. I suggest that the Markovian model (Azun, 1983), on the basis of a theoretical understanding of underlying mechanism, which gives more information about the occurrence of regionalized variables, is used to respond all properties of ReV's. There are a lot of problems for modeling of onedimensional sample semivariogram function. Thus, it is not appropriate to go to higher order dimensional sample semivariogram function modeling. In the meantime, I would recommend that one can connect the values of standardized sample semivariogram function rather than simple values of semivariogram function in the two-dimensional estimation. The standardized values can be computed in dividing the semivariogram function value by the number of sample pairs involved in each lag regardless of the directions. In conclusion, geostatistics is an interdisciplinary area in mining that uses the principles of mathematical statistics. Thus, it should not violate any probabilistic and statistical rules. When Matheron was developing the theory of geostatistical study in the early years of geostatistics, many mining people had a reservation accepting the geostatistical tools. However, this does not mean that we, the geostatisticians, might try to convince those people using some "strange" tools or rules as some authors implied (Baafi and Kim, 1984). Instead, we have to develop and explain the geostatistical tools staying only in the framework of statistical concepts and properties. ? References Azun, M.S., 1983, "Stochastic Process Modeling of Spatially Distributed Geostatistical Data," Columbia University, Ph.D. Thesis. Baafi, E.Y., and Kim, Y.C., 1984, "Discussion - Comparison of Different Ore Reserve Estimation Methods Using Conditional Simulation," Mining Engineering, Vol. 36, No. 3, p. 280. Reply by J.M. Rendu The interactive method proposed by Rendu allows practitioners to develop semivariogram models that take into account not only the numerical information obtained by sampling, but also highly significant additional information that often cannot be quantified. The geology of the deposit - including hypotheses concerning its genesis, sampling methods, assaying methods, and mathematical methods used to calculate the semivariograms - all have an influence on the numerical results obtained and on how these results should be interpreted. If all the information concerning the spatial distribution of values in a mineral deposit was contained in the sample values, it could be argued that statistical techniques alone would produce optimum models. However, this is rarely, if ever, the case. Methods that allow the user to take into account his experience and his geologic understanding of the deposit should not be rejected for the sake of theoretical statistical purity. ?

Jan 1, 1986

By R. C. Kirkman

Your interesting and well-written paper brings up the issue of the purpose or use of a mineral property appraisal, specifically the value of these evaluations when the quality and quantity of the mineral resource to be exploited have not been thoroughly investigated. I am not a practicing professional in regards to valuation of limestone investment opportunities. I simply wish to make a few generic observations about the appraisal process in order to stimulate meaningful thinking by appraisal professionals whose reports may be reviewed by professional investors and "laypersons" alike. It is my contention that the analysis given in your paper is very thorough, considering the data that was made available to you. But I would not like to be the person responsible for investment decision making without having a feel for the risk involved. Therefore, the reviewer must classify this type of analysis as relatively "subjective" because they have not received an indication of the inherent risk involved in exploiting a mineral resource. This risk can best be quantified by using probabilistic methods in conjunction with the quality and quantity of the mineral to be produced. Most appraisals passively ignore this problem. Specifically, you have accurately identified the various costs and values entering the economic appraisal process. These can usually be quantified with a great deal more certainty than the capability of the resource to provide 25 years of quality material. Also, in Cases A (West Virginia)and B (Alabama), you are fortunate enough to have previous operations data. What if there had never been production from these properties? How does a potential mineral property investor evaluate the resource capability to meet various projected financial outcomes without spending a good deal of up-front capital to drill and delineate enough quality resources for a 20-plus year operation. These questions pose a substantial risk to any potential mineral investor. Only probabilistic methods should be used to quantify this type of problem, short of drilling and metallurgical testing. I might be considered a "layperson," not being familiar

Jan 1, 1991

By R. V. Colligan

[CONTENTS PACE Educating and Training Economic Geologists of the Future. By C. H. BEHRE, JR. (TP 2278, Min. Tech., Nov. 1948. Discussions by R. V. COLLIGAN and EVAN JUST) ....... I Mercury Industry in Italy. By EDWIN B. ECKEL. (TP 2292, Min. Tech., Jan. 1948. Discussion .............................. by C. N. SCHUETTE) 3 Chert in the Kingsport Formation at Mascot, Tennessee. By ARTHUR T. ALLEN. (TP 2299, ............... Min. Tech., Jan. 1948. Discussion by M. M. BUTLER) 5 Wall Rock Alteration at Butte, Montana. By RENO H. SALES and CHARLES MEYER. (TP 2400, Min. Tech., May 1948. Djscussions by C. D. HULIN, W. D. JOHNSTON, JR., and L. C. ................................... GRATON) 5] Educating and Training Economic Geologists of the Future R. V. COLLIGAN*-I can best illustrate my opinions by drafting another five year plan (Table 2). This plan is set up following the same stipulations outlined by Dr. Behre, namely: (I) the student is preparing himself for commercial work as a mining geologist; (2) he is attending an institution with a sufficiently broad curriculum (that is, engineering school and mining school as well as liberal arts college) to furnish the courses listed; and (3) he is not planning to continue his studies through to a doctor's degree before going into commercial work. A comparison of my study plan (Table 2) and that submitted by Dr. Behre (Table I) will at once point up the basic similarity, due to the obvious fact that there are so many essential courses which must be included in any outline of study. However, a more detailed analysis will show up certain differences, which, in fact, are only certain refinements on Dr. Behre's program. These I plan to discuss in order of their importance. The first and most important change is the addition of 12 hr of optional subjects, making a total of 24 hr of optional subjects as against a total of 12 hr under Dr. Behre's schedule. This of course entails the elimination of certain courses, which I shall discuss later. However, I wish to make it clear that I suggest eliminating these courses not because I feel that they are unnecessary, but rather because I feel the optional courses are more necessary to the complete education of the individual. I appreciate that Dr. Behre recognizes the importance of the cultural side of education, but I take issue with his thesis that the student will get it without credit and in his spare time. I do not think that the average college student, and certainly not the college freshman, is mature enough to know what he needs and where to get it in his spare time. I think it must be "spoon-fed"; he must be oriented through specific courses. University life (or should I say "college life") is too full of athletics, fraternity activities, dances, "bull sessions," and countless other enjoyable distractions, all of which contribute to the "full man." I fail to see how the average young American male can possibly sandwich in a necessary complement of "cultural activities" in his spare time. Since these latter activities do not fall within the pattern set by the "group," and show less promise of immediate return in enjoyment, or increased social status on the campus, they are bound to suffer in competition with the more popular, "group" activities. No doubt much of the criticism levelled against arts colleges, namely, that the cultural courses are useless, is well taken, for the culture

Jan 1, 1947

George A. Packard, Boston, Mass. (communication to the Secretary†):—The very interesting results obtained by Prof. Hofman and his assistants came to my attention when I had temporarily assumed charge of the metallurgical department of the Missouri School of Mines, and had found it, pending the completion of a new building, lacking a furnace in which to roast ore preparatory to the customary lead blast-furnace run. An attempt at lime-roasting had been already determined upon, but the use of a charge which would make a slag of definite composition was a new idea. The results following were obtained by Messrs. Aubrey Fellows, J. C. Long, E. R. Wash, and Dr. T. C. Tseung, under my supervision. It is regretted that the data are not more complete; but the work was done simply incidentally to securing the desired ore for the blast-

Jan 1, 1908

Edward A. UehlinG, New York City (communication to the Secretary*):—Mr. Baker's paper is one that brings up a subject of great importance, and if full statistics could be collectecl of the number of furnace-linings ruined by reason of bad distribution by skip-hoists, it would be found an astonishing array. Unfortunately a universal remedy has not yet been found. The fact that Mr. Baker has apparently succeeded in overcoming the trouble at Sydney, is no guarantee that the same remedy applied at another plant, where very different or even slightly different conditions prevail, mould cure the trouble. That it requires but a slight continuous difference of penetrability in the column of the descending stock of one section, over another, to produce channeling, is clearly demonstrated by Mr. Baker's experiments, by which he reversed the channeling from front to rear instead of remedying the trouble. Every change in the physical make-up of the charge necessarily requires a specific adjustment; even supposing this feasible, the regular working of the furnace is by no means assured, because with the high pressures now customary, the tendency of the ascending gases to plow their way through in a direct course, prevails, and having once opened up a passage, they will persist and cause trouble. Homogeneous filling-, hard driving and regularity of working are incompatible. The higher the furnace, the greater the

Jan 1, 1905

F. E. Bachman, Port Henry, N. T. (communication to the Secretary*):—In discussing Mr. o.o.Laudig's paper, the Action of Blast-Furnace Gases Upon Various Iron-Ores,' I took the ground that Mesabi-ore explosions were entirely mechanical; but more observation and later experience has caused me to

Jan 1, 1905

A discussion of the paper by Mr. Campbell, which was read by title at the Lake Superior meeting, but first presented at the New York meeting of the Iron and Steel Institute, October, 1904 (see p. 772). These papers are here published onder a mutual agreement between the Councils of the two Institutes, and will also be found in the Journal of the Iron and Steel Institute for the year 1901, vol. ii. Mr. William R. Webster, Philadelphia, Pa., said: We are under great obligation to Mr. Campbell for his exhaustive investigation, and the results he has put before us to-day. They are the most conlplete series of tests that have ever been made, where all the conditions of rolling, etc., were kept uniform. In discussing Mr. Campbell's first investigations, I claimed first, that the method of least squares, then used, would of necessity only gire the average value of any element, and that if the effect of any element was greater in the presence of high carbon than with low carbon this would not be shown by the method of least squares. Secondly, that the effect of manga nese should be considered on acid steel as well as on basic steel, instead of ignoring all the eff'ect of that element when it was below 0.60 per cent., as was then recommended by Mr. Campbell. I am pleased to note that the results of his present investigation confirm my views on these points. In presenting the results of his first investigation, Mr. Campbell referred to my investigation of 1893-94, and took exception to the value of phosphorus varying (depending on the amount of carbon present) from 800 to 1,500 lb. for each 0.01 per cent. He claimed that one might just as well consider the effect of phosphorus as being constant, and of carbon varying. I refer to this, as he now has introduced very similar conditions in his present tables, in that he gives variable values for manganese (depending on the amount of carbon present) for both acid and basic' steels. Can we now say, with more certainty than formerly, which element should be considered as haviup a constant effect ? There is one other point that I took up in my former discus-

Jan 1, 1905

Charles Catlett, Staunton, Va. (communication to the Secretary*):—Mr. Chance's suggestions that the brown hematite-ores of the Potsdam formation are due to the alteration in place of iron sulphide, and that their extension may reasonably he expected to contain valuable deposits of unaltered sulphide, are interesting; hut the facts marshaled by him are too limited

Jan 1, 1909

James GayleY, New Pork City (communication to the Secretary*) :—The main thing that is sought after in this matter is that all purcliases shall be made by analysis. This is done already in special lines, as in the manufacture of various grades of steel in which phosphorus, silicon and sulphur are specified within narrow limits, and I quite agree with Mr. Cook that specifications, which are over-rigid in unessential particulars, should be avoided, as they defeat their own purpose because unreasonable requirements permitting no variation are practically not fulfilled, and it is impossible to specify grade

Jan 1, 1905

EdgaR S. Cook, Pottstown, Pa.:—Many friends and acquaintances seem to be under the impression that the Warwick Iron & Steel Co. received a' license from Mr. Gayley, free of cost, as an inducement to adopt the process. This impression is not correct, since the license was paid for, and I think it was the first payment that Mr. Gayley received for the use of his process. As president of the Warwick Iron & Steel Co., I am responsible for its earnings, and with only the experience at the Isabella furnaces as a guide, the directors of the company considered that there was a great risk in expending the large sum of money required for the plant. They, however, acted favorably upon my recommendation, and to this extent I am responsible for the installation at the Warwick furnaces. I made the best agreement possible with Mr. Gayley, and naturally our company received certain advantages. It will be contrary to all experience if subsequent plants do not show some improvements and economies in construction. It is to our indirect benefit that all subsequent licenses granted by Mr. Gayley should be charged at a much higher rate than we paid; and I trust that he will see to it that all such licenses granted, especially to companies making merchant iron, shall be at a maximum figure. The Warwick Iron & Steel Go. is not interested in any way in exploiting the merits of the Gayley dry-blast process; on the contrary, looking at the subject from a narrow and selfish standpoint, it is to the advantage of our company that no merchant blast-furnace competing with our iron-product should be equipped with a dry-blast plant. There is a clause in the contract with Mr. Gayley, whereby our company agrees to furnish him with all the data derived from the operation of the dry-blast plant, and that he or his

Jan 1, 1909

Edwin H. MessiteR, New Pork City (communication to the Secretary*):—Under the heading " Flues," Mr. Edwards refers to the Bee-hive construction, a cross-section of which is shown in Fig. 4 of his paper. A flue similar to this was designed by me about six years ago,' in which the walls though much thinner than those described by Mr. Edwards gave entire satisfaction. These walls, from 2.25 in. thick throughout in the smaller flues, to 3.25 in. in the larger, were built by plastering the cement mortar on expanded-metal lath without the use of any forms, or cribs, whatever, at a cost of labor generally less then $1 per sq. yd. of wall. Of course, where plasterers cannot be obtained on reasonable terms, the cement can be molded between wooden forms, though it is difficult to see how it can be done with an interior core only as stated by Mr. Edwards. In regard to the effect of sulphur dioxide and furnace-gases on the cement, I have found that, in certain cases, this is a matter which must be given very careful attention. Where there is sufficient heat to prevent the existence of condensed moisture inside of the flue, there is apparently no action whatever on the cement, but if the concrete is wet, it is rapidly affected by these gases. At points near the furnaces there is generally sufficient heat not only to prevent internal condensation of the aqueous vapor always present in the gases, but also to evaporate water from rain or snow falling on the outside of the flue. Further along, a point is reached where rain-water will percolate through minute cracks caused by expansion and contraction, and reach the interior, even though internal condensation does not occur there in dry weather. From this point to the end of the flue the roof must be coated on the outside with asphalt paint or other impervious material. In very long flues a point may be reached where moisture will condense on the inside of the malls in cold weather. From this point to

Jan 1, 1905

Discussions of the paper of Mr. Gayley read by title at the Lake Superior hieeting, but first presented at the New York meeting of the Iron and Steel Institute, October, 1904 (see p. 746). With the exception of Mr. Pourcel's discussion (p. 1038), these papers are here published under a mutual agreement between the Councils of the two Institutes, and will also be found, with others, in the Journal of the Iron and Steel In-slitute for the pear 1904, Mr. E. Windsor Richards, Past-President,' said that in 1799 Mr. Dawson, of Low Moor, read a paper before a scientific society in York pointing out the great diff'erence in the moisture of the air going into the blast-furnace in the hot months of the year and in the winter months. A cold blast-furnace was a very sensitive instrument, and showed this very clearly, for in June, July and August the furnace did not drive so well; it did not make the quality of iron and required more fuel; so that Mr. Gayley was on the right road to effect an enormous improvement in this direction. He considered that Mr. Gayley was on the way to great success, and hoped that the apparatus would not be a very expensive one. He supposed it mas too early for Mr. Gayley to let them know what the saviug was

Jan 1, 1905

Edward A. UehliNg, New York City (communication to the Secretary*):—In adding my mite to the discussion, I wish to touch on a few points which bear emphasizing and perhaps a little further elucidation. Mr. Grammer says that he "found the electric pig-breaker at Duquesne, if used in connection with the iron-chill, less expensive and more satisfactory " thau the casting-machine. The cost of handling the iron over the Duquesne casting-niachine is about double the average cost of the other Uehling machines at the several Carnegie plants. It is nearly as expensive to run as the Hey1 & Patterson machines, and while Mr. Grammer's statement is, no doubt, true, as applied to that particular machine and breaker, it should be borne in mind that the machine at Duquesne had embodied in it several new features, which were not improvements; also that it was taxed beyond its economic capacity. The machine at the Lucy furnaces under the management of Mr. Scott handled the output of the two furnaces, and saved

Jan 1, 1905