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By E. Tulcanaza

M.S. Azun I do not at all agree with the basic points of the author's conclusion. The use of lognormal or normal model to respond to the attribute distribution function should be carefully questioned. If fitting a distribution function of regionalized variables is the main purpose, one may employ one of certain well-known families of distributions, such as Tukey's lambda functions. For instance, the distribution function of gold assay values studied by Krige (Krige, 1978) may fit the lognormal model well, but one should not exclude that the basic idea of using the distribution function of observed data is to have insight of the physical mechanism that gives rise to the regionalized variables. In Applied Geostatistics, there are many examples considering only lognormal or normal model for the distribution function of geostatistical data even if the observed distribution function has more than one mode. Of course, using lognormal or normal model always brings easy computation for the statistical properties of attribute under investigation. Still, I object to adopting any of those models without having any "statistical inference." As seen from the author's paper, lognormal and normal model produce the same average grade (0.746% copper) and almost the same sample variance. Therefore, which model explains the probabilistic behavior of ore deposit is always an important question that should be replied by the geostatistician using not the common sense but the statistical and probabilistic methods. For kriging procedures, such as linear kriging, one should describe either second order stationary properties or bivariate properties of regionalized variables. Second order properties, such as correlogram function or semivariogram function, are the inputs of the so-called kriging equations. Selecting one of any useable models for the observed second order properties, such as spherical model, is not easy since the models are not based on the correlations structure of the regionalized variables. How those models being used in Applied Geostatistics can be distinguished is another important problem. One may develop many fitting models to respond to the observed second order properties of regionalized variables. However, I suggest that the model should be based on the probabilistic behavior of geologic process. The author used spherical model for copper, wolfram, and silver grades from isotropic sector (Fig. 2, 4, 3b) and exponential model for silver grades obtained along raises in isotropic sector (Fig. 3a). It seems that those semivariograms given in Fig. 3b for isotropic sector and Fig. 4 may be described by the random model implying that regionalized variables do belong to renewal process (Azun, 1983). If I knew the total number of data points used in estimation, I may prove that my conclusion is correct. Recalling the test for the first order sample correlogram value, the test procedure is introduced such that the independence is rejected if [ ] where Za/2 is the a/2 percentile of standard normal random variable and N is the total number of samples used in estimation (Azun, 1983). For the other observed semivariogram functions I suggest the author might try to use the so-called "Markovian model" describing not only the correlation structure of regionalized variables, but also the physical mechanism that produces the regionalized variables. The Markovian model for correlogram function is, [ ] The Markovian model for the other second order properties of ReV are also derived. T ve B, in the above equation, show, for example, structural change and mineralizational variation in a considered deposit, respectively (Azun, 1983). In selecting any model, it is not easy to search for the "best" response to the observed second order properties of ReV's. The Markovian model, based on a theoretical understanding of underlying mechanism, gives more information about the occurrence of regionalized variables and respond to all properties. Random model and the so-called hole effect structure can be easily defined as a special form of the Markovian model (Azun, 1983). An estimation of any second order properties of regionalized variables may be computed through (N-1) lag. However, the dependency between the regionalized variables may be deemed to have "died out" after the so-called stationarity width (range). In practice, the estimation is carried out through 25% of the total number samples available. Therefore, the large fluctuations around the zero level and variance for correlogram or covariogram function and semi-variogram function, respectively, cannot be observed. Since the number of pairs involved in the estimation of higher second order properties is small, the estimation variance at those lags is large. There is no need to show higher order estimated second order properties. After using one of any kriging procedure for block estimation, the distribution function of average grades has the same mean as the drilling sample grades but

Jan 3, 1985

By M. S. Azun

I do not at all agree with the basic points of the author's conclusion. The use of lognormal or normal model to respond to the attribute distribution function should be carefully questioned. If fitting a distribution function of regionalized variables is the main purpose, one may employ one of certain well-known families of distributions, such as Tukey's lambda functions. For instance, the distribution function of gold assay values studied by Krige (Krige, 1978) may fit the lognormal model well, but one should not exclude that the basic idea of using the distribution function of observed data is to have insight of the physical mechanism that gives rise to the regionalized variables. In Applied Geostatistics, there are many examples considering only lognormal or normal model for the distribution function of geostatistical data even if the observed distribution function has more than one mode. Of course, using lognormal or normal model always brings easy computation for the statistical properties of attribute under investigation. Still, I object to adopting any of those models without having any "statistical inference." As seen from the author's paper, lognormal and normal model produce the same average grade (0.746% copper) and almost the same sample variance. Therefore, which model explains the probabilistic behavior of ore deposit is always an important question that should be replied by the geostatistician using not the common sense but the statistical and probabilistic methods. For kriging procedures, such as linear kriging, one should describe either second order stationary properties or bivariate properties of regionalized variables. Second order properties, such as correlogram function or semivariogram function, are the inputs of the so-called kriging equations. Selecting one of any useable models for the observed second order properties, such as spherical model, is not easy since the models are not based on the correlations structure of the regionalized variables. How those models being used in Applied Geostatistics can be distinguished is another important problem. One may develop many fitting models to respond to the observed second order properties of regionalized variables. However, I suggest that the model should be based on the probabilistic behavior of geologic process. The author used spherical model for copper, wolfram, and silver grades from isotropic sector (Fig. 2, 4, 3b) and exponential model for silver grades obtained along raises in isotropic sector (Fig. 3a). It seems that those semivariograms given in Fig. 3b for isotropic sector and Fig. 4 may be described by the random model implying that regionalized variables do belong to renewal process (Azun, 1983). If I knew the total number of data points used in estimation, may prove that my conclusion is correct. Recalling the test for the first order sample correlogram value, the test procedure is introduced such that the independence is rejected if [Ir(1) I > Za/2 N1/2] where Za/2 is the a/2 percentile of standard normal random variable and N is the total number of samples used in estimation (Azun, 1983). For the other observed semivariogram functions I suggest the author might try to use the so-called "Markovian model" describing not only the correlation structure of regionalized variables, but also the physical mechanism that produces the regionalized variables. The Markovian model for correlogram function is, [p (h) = T 1ih , h>1 ,] The Markovian model for the other second order properties of ReV are also derived. [T veß], in the above equation, show, for example, structural change and mineralizational variation in a considered deposit, respectively (Azun, 1983). In selecting any model, it is not easy to search for the "best" response to the observed second order properties of ReV's. The Markovian model, based on a theoretical understanding of underlying mechanism, gives more information about the occurrence of regionalized variables and respond to all properties. Random model and the so-called hole effect structure can be easily defined as a special form of the Markovian model (Azun, 1983). An estimation of any second order properties of regionalized variables may be computed through (N-1) lag. However, the dependency between the regionalized variables may be deemed to have "died out" after the so-called stationarity width (range). In practice, the estimation is carried out through 25% of the total number samples available. Therefore, the large fluctuations around the zero level and variance for correlogram or covariogram function and semivariogram function, respectively, cannot be observed. Since the number of pairs involved in the estimation of higher second order properties is small, the estimation variance at those lags is large. There is no need to show higher order estimated second order properties. After using one of any kriging procedure for block estimation, the distribution function of average grades has the same mean as the drilling sample grades but

Jan 1, 1986

By M. A. Schimmelpfennig, A. D. S. Gillies

M.J. McPherson Having worked on the thermodynamics of air/liquid-water mixtures passing through the surface fans of deep mines, I find this paper of great interest and congratulate the authors on producing it. There are two matters, however, deserving discussion. First, the authors have described the classical theory of fog formation with fogging occurring at "supersaturation." In fact, the process of fog formation begins well below 100% humidity. The more strongly hygroscopic nuclei in the atmosphere will attract water molecules and begin to grow at a relative humidity perhaps as low as 70%. The process is a dynamic one with both condensation and evaporation taking place throughout the mixture on microscopic liquid surfaces. As saturation is approached, the rate of condensation accelerates rapidly producing the familiar reduction in visibility. Hygroscopic nuclei are present in all natural atmospheres and under the appropriate conditions of pressure and temperature, will produce clean fogs. However, if the air is polluted by particulates from combustion or other processes then the resultant coagulation with growing liquid particles may produce dense (and sometimes photochemical) smogs. It is this process that is likely to occur in underground mines when moist air is cooled below dew point. Second, the authors have summarized very well the individual measures that might alleviate the problem. In particular, I agree that neither heating nor refrigerating the air, by themselves, provides a satisfactory solution. However, there is a combination of these that provides a neat and effective control of fog formation. This involves a small, self-contained refrigeration unit within a duct but without the usual external heat rejection facility. The air is cooled below dew point and, hence, dehumidified on passing over the cold evaporator coils. The heat from the condenser is rejected back into the air downstream from the water eliminator, as shown in Fig. 1. The duct configuration can be designed to create good mixing at the outlet. I have used a climatic simulation program to illustrate the effect, assuming a 500-m (1,640 ft) long airway of cross section 60 m2 (645 sq ft), an airflow of 9 m3/s (318 cu ft per sec), inlet conditions of 19/19.25°C (66/67°F) wet bulb/dry bulb temperatures, a virgin rock temperature of 17°C (63°F) and typical rock thermal properties for a hard-rock mine. I have also assumed that 10% of the rock surface is wet. Figure 2 shows the variation in temperatures along the airway if no measures are taken. The relative humidity remains close to 100% and condensation will occur throughout the length of the airway. Before any such installation is designed, the exercise must, of course, be repeated for each location with accurate data. However, this example demonstrates the potential of the system. The idea is not new - the principle is sometimes used in air-conditioning plants for buildings. Figure 3 shows the effect of removing 30 kw of heat by evaporator coils sited 40 m (131 ft) along the airway and rejecting that heat (plus another 10 kw of compressor and fan power) into the air at 60 m (197 ft). Condensate water is produced, at a rate of 0.45 L/min (0.12 gpm). The result of this sequential cooling/dehumidification/heating process is to separate the wet and dry bulb temperatures along the length of the airway. The relative humidity increases from 80% at the duct outlet to 92% at 500 m (1,640 ft). The airway is maintained free from fog.

Jan 11, 1983

By M. J. McPherson

Having worked on the thermodynamics of air/liquid-water mixtures passing through the surface fans of deep mines, I find this paper of great interest and congratulate the authors on producing it. There are two matters, however, deserving discussion. First, the authors have described the classical theory of fog formation with fogging occurring at "supersaturation." In fact, the process of fog formation begins well below 100% humidity. The more strongly hygroscopic nuclei in the atmosphere will attract water molecules and begin to grow at a relative humidity perhaps as low as 70%. The process is a dynamic one with both condensation and evaporation taking place throughout the mixture on microscopic liquid surfaces. As saturation is approached, the rate of condensation accelerates rapidly producing the familiar reduction in visibility. Hygroscopic nuclei are present in all natural atmospheres and under the appropriate conditions of pressure and temperature, will produce clean fogs. However, if the air is polluted by particulates from combustion or other processes then the resultant coagulation with growing liquid particles may produce dense (and sometimes photochemical) smogs. It is this process that is likely to occur in underground mines when moist air is cooled below dew point. Second, the authors have summarized very well the individual measures that might alleviate the problem. In particular, I agree that neither heating nor refrigerating the air, by themselves, provides a satisfactory solution. However, there is a combination of these that provides a neat and effective control of fog formation. This involves a small, self-contained refrigeration unit within a duct but without the usual external heat rejection facility. The air is cooled below dew point and, hence, dehumidified on passing over the cold evaporator coils. The heat from the condenser is rejected back into the air down-stream from the water eliminator, as shown in [Fig. 1]. The duct configuration can be designed to create good mixing at the outlet.

Jan 1, 1984

By Bunting S. Crocker

Bunting S. Crocker (Executive Vice President, Kilborn Engineering Ltd., Toronto, Ont., Canada)-This is an interesting report on laboratory-scale testing with pebble charges in 12-in.-diam mills, and the author correctly concludes that useful laboratory testing can be done. In the opening paragraphs he states, "laboratory pebble-milling tests have been considered too difficult to perform and not relevant enough to the actual grinding situation"!! This is definitely not so! The writer published detailed tests done in a 12-in.-diam mill comparing pebble and steel balls in 1952 6 and again in 1954 7. We note that our review paper in 1963 was the only one mentioned in the References. The author states that "a smooth lining is more frequently used in commercial-scale pebble grinding." The writer has designed some 22 plants treating 134,000 tpd in North America and Australia. He has also visited pebble installations in Norway, Sweden, Finland, and South Africa. All these plants correctly use heavier lifters than would be considered standard for ball mills of a similar size. Smooth liners are not recommended in wet ore treating plants. In the 1952 paper6 it was clearly demonstrated in the test work that the individual ore pebbles had to be the same weight-not the same diameter or size-as the steel balls if comparable grinding results were to be obtained. In the tests performed in this study most of the pebbles "passed 50-mm round hole screen openings and remained on a 40-mm round hole sieve. Correspondingly most of the ball mill experiments were performed with 50 or 40-mm steel balls". Thus, the balls and pebbles were essentially the same size or diameter. This means we are comparing apples and oranges. When the feed being ground is fine enough the pebbles will be superior. When the feed is coarse the steel balls will be the better. This is similar to grinding tests in which two sizes of steel balls are compared. In the middle of the article, "Crocker5 has reported that equal weights of pebbles and steel balls achieve the same grinding capacities under similar conditions …", then he proceeds to question this postulate. In the eight reports that I have published, I have never made this statement. What I have said is "for comparable grinding, the individual pebbles in the mill charge should be the same weight as the individual steel balls." This is not the first time that I have been misquoted on this point! It is most unfortunate that this test work has been done with a ball and pebble of the same diameter and not the same weight. It is impossible to properly evaluate the results. I also regret the fact that the screen analyses of the tests were not shown. Many of us who have been 40 years or less in the grinding game can easily read screen analyses at a glance. We can tell whether the top meshes are being ground by the ball charge, etc., etc. The graphs are fine for the summary or to illustrate conclusions but are often misleading in the report itself. However, we do agree that useful pebble grinding tests can be done in a 12-in. mill.

Jan 1, 1973

By F. W. Brackebusch

In the paper presented by F.W. Brackebusch on the "Basics of paste backfill systems," paste fill was presented as a backfill process that offers many advantages over other alternatives such as hydraulic fill and rock fill. It was observed, however, that the mechanics of paste-fill transportation in pipelines is not fully understood and that the success of its implementation in practice depends on the precise control of the proportions of fines, aggregates and water in the mixture. The author emphasized the necessity for laboratory and full-scale testing to determine the suitability of a material to be used as paste fill. Although experimental testing is definitely an important operation in the design of a reliable paste fill, advances in the understanding of the fundamental laws that govern paste flow in pipelines are equally relevant. Ideally, the results of such efforts would provide predictive models for the rheology of the paste and the corresponding pumping-energy requirements. In an attempt to achieve this objective, an ongoing research program has been active at McGill University's Department of Mining and Metallurgical Engineering. Preliminary results showed that the underlying mechanics of paste-fill flow in pipelines may be described in terms of what is known as "plug flow," as depicted in Fig. 1. Although this flow mechanism has been known qualitatively for many years, few attempts managed to offer a comprehensive model (Gandhi, 1987; Duckworth, 1986). In our model, it is assumed that coarse aggregates present in the mixture form a porous core, which is filled with paste (fines and water) and is surrounded by an annular non-Newtonian (Bingham-plastic) lubrication layer, which enables the mixture to flow with pressure losses that are easily overcome by common positive-displacement pumps. In summary, our model predicts the thickness of the annular lubricating layer, which controls the magnitude of the pressure losses. This is done either by collecting data on the apparent viscosity of the Theologically-active fine fraction and using an analytical equation (Bouzaiene, 1994), or is done by measuring the void content of the coarse aggregates and deducing the thickness as a function of the fine- to coarse (weight or volume) fraction ratio in the mixture for a given pipe diameter and solids concentration. Our model predictions showed good agreement with data from Duckworth et al. (1986), as shown in Fig. 2.? References Bouzaiene, R., 1994, "Hydraulic transportation in mining," Ph.D. dissertation in progress, McGill University, Dept. of Mining and Metallurgical Engineering, Montreal, P0, Canada Duckworth, A., Addie, G.R., and Maffei, J.R.,1986, "Mine waste disposal by pipeline using a fine slurry carrier," Proceedings of the 11th International Conference on Slurry Transportation, Slurry Transport Association, Washington DC. Gandhi, R.L., 1987, "Effect of rheological properties of fines fraction on slurry hydraulics," Proceedings of the 12th International Conference on Slurry Technology, New Orleans, LA.

Jan 1, 1996

By L. O. Howard

R. HATCH, Garfield, Utah.-The object of the meeting, I believe, is to determine the proper chemical composition to insure long wear of a ball in a mill, This might also apply to rods. I feel that there is only one way of determining accurately the wearing qualities of balls in mills, and that is by actually wearing out 400 or 500 tons of different kinds of balls. Two things add to the wearing qualities of a ball: (1) the tenacity, with which the particular particles of iron or steel are cemented together; (2) the individual hardness of each particle. My experience is that a ball that has a Brinell of 550 to 650 will give comparatively long life. There is considerable difference of opinion as to the best steel and iron alloys necessary to produce a satisfactory grinding ball. Some favor chrome, some manganese and some nickel. Personally, I believe cast iron alloyed with chrome makes the best ball for small sizes; for large sizes (3 1/2 in. and up) steel alloyed with manganese is best. L. 0. HOWARD, Pullman, Wash.-How would this method apply to lining? A. KissocK, New York, N. Y.-I do not subscribe to that exactly. As I am connected with the Climax Molybdenum Co. you would hardly expect me to. We have been much interested in trying to work out this grinding-ball problem and have spent a great deal of thought and effort on it. As we are associated with the American Metal Co. and have a number of properties of our own, we are in position to try our ideas on ourselves first. We have tried different compositions, but have not done anything very remarkable with them yet, except that we have been able to say that the combination of chrome and molybdenum has given the best wearing ball. Mr. Hatch feels that iron is the best medium for grinding, but since toughness as well as hardness is a factor in wearability we feel that a well made steel is better for this purpose. Another difficulty with cast, or chilled, iron is lack of uniformity from day to day or from heat to heat and the impossibility of producing balls free from blow or shrinkage holes which materially affect their life. If cast iron is made hard it becomes brittle and lacks stretch or toughness. This prevents its use in the larger sizes, as breakage is a serious handicap to efficiency. We have tried hard and brittle balls and softer but very tough balls and have proved that maximum hardness, with sufficient toughness to prevent breakage, is the most important factor in resistance of a steel to abrasion. It is well known that chromium is one of the best hardening agencies for either iron or steel, and molybdenum is recognized as an element capable of introducing toughness. In other words, the proper combination of chromium and molybdenum permits unusual hardness with still sufficient toughness to stand up under severest impact. It is yet too early to give any actual mill results of this new combination and though we are proving our ideas at our own properties we have to depend on others to help us make the data more general and more worth while and would like to get some tests

Jan 1, 1928

By M. G. Ayat, B. C. Scott

J. Dasher Having an interest in coal slurry pipelines from a decade of arguments with Ed Wasp and crew at Bechtel about pumping thicker slurries slower, I immediately read this article and found nothing in it pertinant to the title. Ayat and Scott pumped five unidentified coals at 9% solids (50%-60% is the area of interest) in a 25-mm (1-in.) pipe around two square elbows through a 76-mm (3-in.) cyclone for up to 60 minutes and sized a large number of samples of unstated size on an unidentified wet screening device. They did not measure power consumption, discharge pressure, flow rate, or give pump tip speed or impeller diameter. They siad the cyclone had a "high" pressure drop (unmeasured) and did much of the degradation (measured) but more or less per unit of energy expended? Hargrove was not measured, so there are no data as to whether it would correlate with degradation. The authors conclude, with no attempt, correlation is "hard to establish." Please experiment before concluding. I am at a loss to know what "increasingly smaller size" means, much less what theory says such particles take "exponentially larger quantities of energy," which the authors neglected to measure. If such experiments without pertinent data or justified conclusions must be published, please attach a pertinant title. reply by M. G. Ayat The first and the last criticism of this paper is that the work is not pertinent to the title. Anybody who reads this article will immediately realize that the work describes the breakage of coal particles to finer sizes in coal slurry pipes and pumps. If this is so, why not title the work "Degradation process in coal slurry pipelines"? What could be more pertinent to this title than the investigation concerning the degradation phenomenon of coal particles in a pipe carrying a coal slurry? Mr. Dasher complains that he does not understand the meaning of the term "increasingly smaller size." The first sentence of this article defines the degradation process as "the breakage of coal particles to increasingly finer sizes." The term "increasingly finer sizes" here means successive breakage of a fine particle to finer and finer sizes. According to Hukki (Hukki, 1975), the probability of breakage is high for large particles and rapidly diminished for fine sizes. We apologize for being brief about some of these definitions. The degradation process, breakage of particles to increasingly finer sizes, is so widespread in the mineral industry that we did not feel it necessary to bore the reader with lengthy definitions of some simple terms. Mr. Dasher states that the coals examined and their original size consist are unidentified. Please look at Table I and Table 2 in the paper again where you will find the original size consist of the coals examined and their full specifications. We only named the coals A, B, C, D, and E to avoid identifying the coal seams that were more susceptible to degradation. Not identifying the name of the wet screening device used in this work has also been criticized. In our opinion, wet screening operation is such a routine and standard procedure that naming the device by which the screening is performed would serve no purpose but to promote a sales approach. This was not our intention. We did not conclude that the correlation between the degradation process and Hardgrove Grindability Index is hard to establish as Mr. Dasher writes in his letter. We stated, not concluded, that "It is reasonable to assume that some relationship between the extent of degradation and its physical properties, such as Hardgrove Grindability Index, does exist. However, any definite correlation is difficult to establish." This statement is based on other researchers work, which are clearly referenced in the article. The conclusions of this paper were based solely on the findings of the experimental work. As for the theory of comminution that Mr. Dasher asks, we would like to refer him to some basic comminution books and articles where various theories are clearly described. For example, Hukki (Hukki, R.T.,"The Principles of Comminution; An Analytical Summary," Eng. Min. 176, 106, 1975) suggests that the relationship between energy and particle size is a composite form of three laws (Bond's law, Kick's law, and Rittinger's law). A comprehensive analysis of coal breakage processes is also performed by Broadbent and Callcott (S.R. Broadbent, and T.G. Callcott, "Coal Breakage Processes, I. - A New Analysis of Coal Breakage Processes;" and "Coal Breakage Processes, II. - A Matrix Representation of Breakage," Journal of the Institute of Fuel, pp. 524-539, December 1956). These and many other relevant publications explain the relationship between the particle size and energy much better that what can be said in this short reply. We will, however, agree with Mr. Dasher on one particular point. We, too, believe that if the investigation concerning the degradation process in coal slurry pipeline were to be pursued further, one could choose to determine one or more of the variables available in the process, such as discharge pressure, power consumption, percent solid, pipe diameter, etc.

Jan 1, 1989

By N. D. Policow, J. S. Orphanos

D.A. Dahlstrom In the paper, a comparison was made between flowsheets using the screen bowl centrifuge and disc filters, respectively, as the primary dewatering device. The authors very effectively show that by raising feed temperature, mechanical dewatering is enhanced through reduced viscosity of the water. When a final coal moisture of 10% is required, the net effect of heating the feed is a reduction in thermal requirements because of the lower evaporated load on the dryer. The flowsheet comparison on this, however, was not completely correct. Disc filters do not generally utilize enhanced mechanical dewatering through increased temperature. Horizontal belt filters, through the optimal use of steam heating of the filter cake, have shown significant cost reductions over disc filters where steam is not used. In addition, the authors forgot to mention that there is a certain fraction of the feed that is so fine that it cannot be recovered by the centrifuge economically. That is the function of the filtration device shown in Fig. 4. In subbituminous pipeline coals, this fraction represents more than 10% of the feed. Even after flocculation and belt pressing, the moisture content in the fine fraction is 30%-40. Recent tests on a subbituminous pipeline coal slurry, compared an Eimco-Extractor horizontal belt filter with the screen bowl centrifuge flowsheet shown in Fig. 4. Mechanical dewatering was enhanced through the use of a steam dry zone after the initial dewatering zone. Vacuum pump horsepower was reduced by more than 50% through the use of condensors, and heat recovery was utilized to minimize thermal costs. Thermal drying to 10% moisture by weight was required in both flowsheets. The 0.5 wt% fines in the filtrate were flocculated and recycled to the filter, thus eliminating the belt press and solids mixers. When the three major operating costs (which normally account for 50%-75% of the coal operating costs) of steam, electricity, and flocculants at current prices were calculated, the flowsheets utilizing the Eimco-Extractor had cost savings vs the centrifuge flowsheet of 89¢/t (81o; per st) of surface dry coal. This advantage increases with increasing thermal and electricity prices. I congratulate the authors for the strides made with the screen bowl centrifuge. However, filtration flowsheets continue to be improved and their simplicity and low thermal and electrical requirements should not be so quickly dismissed. ? Reply by N.D. Policow From a technical standpoint, a number of extensive test programs have demonstrated that by raising the feed temperature, mechanical dewatering is enhanced whether it be centrifuges or filters performing the separation. Economic constraints usually become the over-riding issue. If an inexpensive source of thermal energy is available, i.e., waste steam, etc., the approach becomes commercially acceptable. For the specific case of coal slurry pipelines, since the dewatering plants will be located close to power generation stations, the preheating approach becomes especially attractive. The cost comparison shown in Fig. 7, which was prepared by a major West Coast engineering firm, contrasted screen bowl centrifuges and disc filters. In both alternatives, a thermal dryer was specified to produce a contract moisture of the final product. Sizing of the thermal dryer on the screen bowl alternative was substantially smaller than that of the filter, since the screen bowl was credited with a four to six percentage point decrease in product moisture compared to the disc. This comparison was made at ambient temperatures and reflected solely the mechanical dewatering capabilities of the two devices. No preheating of the feed was included in this particular comparison. Early generation screen bowl centrifuges operated under the principle of maximum bulk tonnage throughput. Second and third generation machines have followed the trends dictated by the coal industry calling for higher one-pass recoveries than previously demanded. The current generation of high-speed, long-bowl centrifuges permit recoveries of ultrafine solids directly comparable to commercial filter operation. On typical coal preparation plant feeds with nominal 600 E. an X 0 (28 mesh X 0) clean coal, recovery levels in excess of 99% are now obtained. The material that does escape the centrifuge and reports to the main effluent is typically -10 µm, high ash material. We have documented substantial beneficiation effects in screen bowl centrifuge performance with the cake product containing lower ash levels than the feed. On the referenced pipeline, coal tests performed on Western subbituminous coal, we found that the percentage of -10 µm material in the feed was six to eight times greater than normally encountered on eastern Appalachian seams. Our 45-t/h (50-stph) production centrifuge was never set up to maximize recovery. It was used as part of the two-stage dewatering circuit that had been chosen by designers of the proposed pipeline. Recoveries up to 95% were recorded. With field adjustments, that performance could most certainly have been improved. In contrast, manufacturers of the horizontal belt filter provided a small pilot-scale unit that operated on a side stream at the test facility. Numerous combinations of chemical additions were evaluated to determine those that had the best impact on filter performance. Whereas the screen bowl centrifuges operated without chemical addition, producing a dry, fluffy cake, the belt filter required two stages of chemical addition to attain satisfactory performance and high recovery levels. On the two-stage circuit that incorporated a belt press as the secondary

Jan 12, 1983

By D. A. Dahlstrom

In the paper, a comparison was made between flowsheets using the screen bowl centrifuge and disc filters, respectively, as the primary dewatering device. The authors very effectively show that by raising feed temperature, mechanical dewatering is enhanced through reduced viscosity of the water. When a final coal moisture of 10% is required, the net effect of heating the feed is a reduction in thermal requirements because of the lower evaporated load on the dryer. The flowsheet comparison on this, however, was not completely correct. Disc filters do not generally utilize enhanced mechanical dewatering through increased temperature. Horizontal belt filters, through the optimal use of steam heating of the filter cake, have shown significant cost reductions over disc filters where steam is not used. In addition, the authors forgot to mention that there is a certain fraction of the feed that is so fine that it cannot be recovered by the centrifuge economically. That is the function of the filtration device shown in [Fig. 4]. In subbituminous pipeline coals, this fraction represents more than 10% of the feed. Even after flocculation and belt pressing, the moisture content in the fine fraction is 30%-40. Recent tests on a subbituminous pipeline coal slurry, compared an Eimco-Extractor horizontal belt filter with the screen bowl centrifuge flowsheet shown in [Fig. 4]. Mechanical dewatering was enhanced through the use of a steam dry zone after the initial dewatering zone. Vacuum pump horsepower was reduced by more than 50% through the use of condensers, and heat recovery was utilized to minimize thermal costs. Thermal drying to 10% moisture by weight was required in both flowsheets. The 0.5 wt% fines in the filtrate were flocculated and recycled to the filter, thus eliminating the belt press and solids mixers. When the three major operating costs (which normally account for 50%-75% of the coal operating costs) of steam, electricity, and flocculants at current prices were calculated, the flowsheets utilizing the Eimco-Extractor had cost savings vs the centrifuge flowsheet of 89c/t (81c per st) of surface dry coal. This advantage increases with increasing thermal and electricity prices. I congratulate the authors for the strides made with the screen bowl centrifuge. However, filtration flowsheets continue to be improved and their simplicity and low thermal and electrical requirements should not be so quickly dismissed.

Jan 1, 1984

By H. P. Croft

[ ] Professor Hibbard's paper presents a very interesting theory concerning the influence of texture on the tendency of brass tube to stress-corrosion crack. I should like to present the result of some work done in 1941 which may throw further light on the subject. In the first place, in regard to his review of the influences of grain boundaries, we not only confirmed the findings which he quoted, but also were unable to crack single crystals of beta brass in the standard mercurous nitrate test in 50 hr under loads up to 18,500 psi. Samples containing two or more crystals of beta brass always cracked at grain boundaries and generally followed the same pattern as for alpha brass, although cracking occurred sooner than in alpha brass under the same conditions. Such a specimen is shown in Fig 4. Second, at the possible risk of repetition, we should like to call attention to the reported role of grain size as influencing the tendency to stress-corrosion crack. This phenomenon, originally mentioned by Dr. Allan Morris in the Transactions, AIME, 1931, is illustrated in Fig 5, showing the effect of variations in grain size on the tendency of drawn brass wires to crack under load in the mercurous nitrate solution. This was taken from my work published in Proceedings A.S.T.M. 41, (1941), 905.

Jan 1, 1948

[ ] DISCUSSION F A LORIA*-The method of testing gun steel for resistance to surface cracking described in this paper was restricted to the examination of small, rod-shaped specimens The writer would like to point out the importance of other factors in producing defects in forged and bored gun tubes which would not be apparent in this investigation because of the nature of )he test Actual section size would accentuate the possibility of internal wall (bore) defects arising from unequal expansion between the internal and external wall surfaces on firing, resulting in internal tearing Checks and tears on the inside walls arise from internal tensions and nonuniformity on cooling, but the internal tearing can be reduced by using alloys of low expansion and of good thermal conductivity so as to reduce the difference between the outer and inner wall surfaces Also, the possibility of the location of inclusion segregates within a machined gun tube becomes more likely than in a small test specimen The effect of these nonmetallics on gun life and performance is evident when one realizes that the inclusions are soft yet brittle They reduce the amount of plastic deformation which can take place before cohesive failure occurs Once localized fracture has occurred at the position of a chain of these inclusions, a sharp notch (crack) is formed which produces stress conditions more favorable to cohesive failure than to plastic deformation These cracks aid erosion by providing channelways for the explosive gases, eventually leading to the tearing out or spalling of blocks of metal Oxidation of the surface may be partly responsible for the change in the surface of gun steel during firing observed by the author The appearance of burn on the surface is an indication that high temperatures were reached on firing, resulting in a slight oxidation of the surface Since the color of the oxidized film depends on both temperature and time, a higher temperature is required for a given color to form when it is caused by explosive heat, which acts for only an extremely short time at a given spot, than when it is caused by ordinary tempering The cross section of the gun steel specimen, Fig 16, illustrates that the repeated firing temperatures were high enough to cause

Jan 1, 1948

A. G. Cockbain—The paper by Burlingame, Bitsianes and Joseph is of great interest in extending the work done on high grade sinters, particularly that of Hessle, and the development and application to them of the technique of McBriar, Johnson, Andrews and Davies on ironstone sinters. In this laboratory the work of McBriar et al. has also been continued and extended to cover high grade sinters, and a sectioning technique similar to that used by McBriar et al. was attempted on sinter cakes made in the laboratory sinter unit, using magnetite concentrates (containing 64 pct Fe). In these experiments no attempt was made to flush out the products of combustion with nitrogen before cooling. It was considered that free air penetration would occur on only a limited scale with the size of sinter cake made (14 in. sq x 12 in. deep). Chemical analyses of the zones showed generally similar features of those described by Burlingame et al. and especially the FeO rich region at and just behind the flame front, i.e. zones of ignition and combustion. This seems to indicate that the nitrogen atmosphere does not materially affect the states of oxidation in the sinter cake or at least that special care is not required unless the sinter cake is small. Burlingame et al. consider that FeO present has some significant part to play in the mechanism of sintering. This view does not find favor with the author. The reduction of iron oxides in the presence of red hot coke is a well known phenomenon, whether conducted in an atmosphere of nitrogen or in a crucible in air, and in view of the presence of some carbon in the hot sinter, especially just at the ignition zone, cessation of the progress of the flame front will in no way affect the reduction of iron oxides near hot coke. Even in a nitrogen atmosphere some CO and CO, will be generated by reduction and by continual oxidation and reduction of CO as the transfer agent, the oxidation state of the iron oxides can be lowered quite rupidly so long as free carbon exists with enough heat. Knowing the composition of the gas at the flame front (obtainable by probes), it would be possible to calculate the static oxidation state of Fe2O3/Fe3O2 in equilibrium with it and hence obtain a check on the chemical analyses to see if in fact direct reduction of the Fe2O3/Fe2O1 to FeO has taken place. Have the authors attempted this? It appears to this writer that what is required is some means of reducing rapidly the heat content of the ignition zone and immediately behind, and at the same time insuring no oxidation by the air. In ironstone sinters the difficulty of oxidation state of the iron did not arise on account of the very large slag bulk. However, in high grade sinters knowledge of this, and also the mechanism whereby high oxidation states can be obtained in the final sinter, is of great interest. R. D. Burlingame (author's reply)—The question has been raised as to whether the high FeO content found in high-fuel sinters is due to actual reduction at the advancing flame front or due to unavoidable direct reduction during the quenching period. For such direct reduction to have taken place in the freshly-formed sinter, a considerable amount of solid carbon would have had to escape combustion and be available throughout the hot sinter zone during the quenching period. A simple stoichiometric calculation with the limited data available indicates that a zone of freshly-formed sinter over 2 in. wide must have averaged roughly 2 pct C to accomplish the amount of reduction found. Furthermore, the presence of this amount of carbon would indicate that the fuel in the charge had not burned over a narrow front but over a zone at least 2 in. thick. In contrast to such a condition, the data of the present investigation indicate that the combustion of fuel is confined mainly to a narrow front in which high temperatures and reducing conditions favor. the formation of excess ferrous iron.

Jan 1, 1959

H. H. Kellogg (Columbia University)—The accurate measurements of the equilibrium gas ratios for the reaction: Pb(1) + H2S = PbS(c) + H2 [I] reported in this paper are a distinct contribution to the literature, and the authors are to be congratulated. I wish to comment, however, on the correlation of the data which is presented. The authors show a straight line correlation of log H2S/H2 vs 1/T, Fig. 1, and are satisfied with this for calculation of ?Fo even when extrapolated to low temperature (427 °C). Heat capacity data for the constituents of this reaction are available (at least to 900°K), however, and ACP for reaction [I] is finite and positive in the temperature range studied. Simplification of the heat capacity equations yields: ?CP= 2.71 + 1.65 x 10-3T (298°-900°K) This positive value of ?CP should result in a small but noticeable curvature of a plot of log K vs 1/T. That the experimental data fail to show such a curvature may be traced to another oversimplification of the author's treatment of their data. They assume that the activity of liquid lead is unity for all temperatures, so that

Jan 1, 1961

Few people in the industry today are competent to comment on the O.G. system for vessel covers, but with papers as well prepared as Mr. Bradley's we will soon be well informed. I would like to direct these comments to Mr. Klaes of Ford Motor Company. Mr. Klaes' description of their steaming hood agrees with our experience at Weirton. We have been able to stay within design limits and, as a result, have had few problems with our auxiliary equipment. Our main problem, as with Ford, has been thinning of our vessel cover tubes. At Weirton, controlled circulation, high pressure boilers are in use as heat recovery units above the BOP vessels. The boilers are provided with "off cycle' oil firing equipment. A Venturi type wet gas scrubber follows the boiler to complete the vessel draft system.

Jan 1, 1972

By Ossi E. Palasvirta

The authors are to be congratulated for their interesting article, which thoroughly illustrates the variables inherent in filtration of taconite concentrate. The work and the conclusions based thereon largely parallel the test work done by the writer at the Pilotac plant* and the experience gained with a commercial size agitating disk filter in the same plant. At Pilotac, however, a thorough study was also made of the effect of depolarizing (demagnetizing) the filter feed, and it is the purpose of this discussion to comment on the merits of depolarization of the magnetite concentrate prior to filtering. The work at Pilotac was done in three phases: 1) preliminary laboratory testing with a circular filter leaf of 0.047 sq ft, followed by 2) plant testing using a 4-ft diam, single-disk agitating filter that was purchased on the basis of the pilot tests on the 4-ft model. In the laboratory tests depolarization was achieved by slowly withdrawin4 batches of thickened concentrate from a coil producing an alternating field of about 300 oersteds. In plant tests the standard Pilotac procedure1 was employed, wherein the pulp falls freely through the depolarizing coil.

Jan 5, 1958

By M. R. Yalamanchili, J. D. Miller

Discussion by M.R. Yalamanchili and J.D. Miller The authors, M. S. Celik et al., should be recognized for their efforts to describe the flotation behavior of boron minerals. In the case of borax and other soluble salt minerals, analysis of the flotation chemistry has been difficult because of the high ionic strengths associated with these soluble salt systems. However, considerable progress has been made in this area, and recently a surface charge/collector colloid adsorption model was proposed by Miller and his coworkers to explain the collector adsorption phenomena observed in soluble salt flotation systems (Milleret al, 1992; Yalamanchili et al., 1993; Miller and Yalamanchili, 1994; Yalamanchili and Miller, 1994a: Yalamanchili and Miller, 1994b). In this work, the sign of the surface charge of alkali halides in their saturated brines was established on the basis of nonequilibrium electrophoretic mobility measurements by laser-Doppler electrophoresis (Miller et al., 1992). Generally, these results are what would be expected from the simplified lattice-ionhydration theory. This electrokinetic information coupled with the stability and prevalence of collector colloids in such soluble salt flotation systems indicates that the selective flotation of alkali halides is due to the adsorption of oppositely charged collector colloids by heterocoagulation. Experimental flotation/bubble attachment results for 21 different alkali halides (Yalamanchili et al., 1993; Yalamanchili and Miller, I994b) confirmed that the flotation response of soluble salt minerals with weak electrolyte collectors can best be explained by the adsorption of oppositely charged collector colloids rather than by the adsorption collector ions and/or neutral molecular dipoles as originally suggested by many researchers (Fuerstenau and Fuerstenau, 1957; Schubert, 1967; Roman et al., 1968). In addition, the flotation of certain alkali oxyanions (Pizarro et al., 1993) and double salts such as schoenite and kainite can be explained by the same collector colloid adsorption mechanism (Miller and Yalamanchili, 1994). The borax flotation results reported by Celik et al. need to be examined in terms of the above mentioned surface charge/ collector colloid adsorption model. Unfortunately, the authors seem to be unaware of this recent work that nicely describes soluble salt flotation with weak electrolyte type collectors such as amines and carboxylates. In view of our past work, the flotation characteristics of borax were of particular interest, and, in this regard, the results of dodecyl amine flotation of borax reported by Celik et al. have been examined in further detail in the light of experimental results from our laboratory. In our research, a vacuum flotation technique was used to study the flotation response of borax (Na2B407.10H20), which has a solubility of 39 g/L at 25 °C) with dodecyl amine hydrochloride as collector. These chemicals were purchased from Eastman Kodak and used as received. Saturated solutions of borax at desired pH values were prepared by continuously stirring the salt solutions over a period of about 10 hrs. It should be mentioned that the conditioning time to achieve equilibrium is an important variable and can significantly change the flotation response of some soluble salts (Yalamanchili et al., 1993). Collector was added to the saturated borax solutions containing about one gram of 100x 150 mesh borax particles, and conditioning was done for about 20 minutes prior to flotation. The borax flotation recoveries from saturated brine are presented in Fig. 1 as a function of collector addition at the natural pH of 9.3, as reported both by Celik et al. and as measured in our laboratory. In addition, the region of precipitation for the dodecyl amine hydroborate is included in Fig. 1. It can be seen in Fig. 1 that the flotation response curves are separated by about one order of magnitude in R12NH3CI collector addition. The flotation results of Celik et al. show that the maximum borax recoveries can be obtained below the solubility limit of the dodecyl amine hydroborate collector. However, in our experiments borax flotation seems to occur only after the precipitation of the dodecyl amine hydroborate collector as might be expected from the collector colloid adsorption model (Yalamanchili et al., 1993) if borax were negatively charged. Further analysis by nonequilibrium and equilibrium electrophoretic mobility measurements for borax indicates that borax is negatively charged at the natural pH of 9.3, as discussed below. The reliability of the nonequilibrium electrophoretic measurements has been demonstrated previously for alkali halides and alkali oxyanions (Miller et al., 1992; Miller and Yalamanchili, 1994). The equilibrium and nonequlibrium electrophoretic measurements for borax were found to be consistent and are presented in Table 1. These results provide clear evidence that borax carries a negative surface charge in its saturated brine (pH 9.3), and the sign of the surface charge of borax reverses and becomes positive if the pH is reduced to 8.6. The equilibrium between borax and its saturated brine can be described by the following reaction: [2Na2B407.1OH2O-4Na++B407=+HB4O7 +OH+19H20] It appears that the oxyanions of the borax lattice provide

Jan 1, 1995

By E. J. Garrison

Discussion by E.J. Garrison A.C. Noble presents a clear and concise summary of the factors pertinent to a competent reserve evaluation of a mineral occurrence. However, I believe that he confuses the difference between a resource and a reserve. By definition, a reserve estimate includes all known economic, legal, mining, metallurgical and environmental factors impacting the recovery of the product(s) found in the deposit. A resource estimate, however, is an estimate of what is there - what is available for exploitation and should not include economic and other considerations. Only after defining the resource, its extent, location, physical and chemical properties, can an intelligent selection process begin of the extraction and processing technologies most appropriate to the circumstances encountered. The early and almost certainly inappropriate application of these often cookbook choices has probably lead many companies to walk away from good properties. (How many mines have been found in others rejects?) An example of the process is the early selection of metallurgical samples, after encouraging values are found in a few holes or surface samples, in an attempt to determine the economics of the prospect. Unfortunately, the sampler does not know how representative of the occurrence the sample is because he does not know what the deposit looks like. As a consequence, the property becomes saddled with a bad metallurgical sample that is often inappropriately used in evaluating the deposit which it does not represent. Reply by A.C. Noble E.J. Garrison asserts that I confuse the difference between a resource and an ore reserve. In fact, this paper was motivated by the observation that resources and reserves are almost universally confused throughout the industry. While Garrison is concerned that too-early consideration of engineering, metallurgical and economic factors will result in dropping properties too soon, some issues that must be considered include: •The purpose of exploration is to discover ore reserves, not to discover resources. •Ore reserves are always smaller than resources. • Decisions on exploration expenditures must be made based on the expectation of the quantity of ore reserves that will ultimately be defined. Noble's Fig. 2 can be used to give guidance as to when it is appropriate to begin reserve calculations. When exploration enters the "flat" portion of the curve, representative samples can be selected for metallurgical studies and appropriate mining methods chosen. It is at this stage that we know enough about the deposit to make intelligent choices of representative samples and recognize constraints on mining caused by the deposits shape, environment and physical properties. Once the appropriate technologies have been chosen, then their cost can be estimated with reasonable accuracy. Early entry of economic and process factors gives the false appearance of reserve status to the resource estimation. It would be more informative and less subject to abuse and misunderstanding if resource calculations were made at a number of cutoff grades. The cutoff grades should be chosen to cover the range of grades found in practice in existing operations of similar type. This would emphasize the open nature of resource estimates and encourage creative evaluation of mining and process technologies. It does not preclude the use of economic, environmental and recovery technology factors in deciding the advisability of continuing exploration expenditures, but would highlight their speculative nature. It is thus hoped that decisions on the future of the deposit would not be made on the presumed suitability of a given technology but on the actually known reality. I agree that resource estimates should be reported as a range of cutoff grades. Since reporting at a cutoff implies application of underlying economics (even by analogy to similar properties), however, it should be clearly stated that resources do not consider economic, mining or cost factors, and that ore reserves will be substantially less. The dilemma of the explorationist is that until the continuity and limits of ore-grade mineralization have been established, it is difficult to make quantitative estimates of either resources or ore reserves. Further industry discussion is needed regarding standards for disclosing early exploration information in such a way as to fairly represent the potential of an exploration property.

Jan 1, 1995

By J. H. Tu

The technical paper correctly points out that the kriging variance is not a good measure of the uncertainty of the estimated (i.e., kriged) value of individual blocks. The authors claim that their proposed jack-knife method, which is a rekriging of each block by eliminating, in turn, one sample from m the original sample set and then taking the average of the rekriged estimates, not only gives good block estimates, but the resulting jackknife kriging standard deviation is a useful indicator of the "true uncertainty associated with block estimates." However, they immediately abandon the idea of using the block-by-block standard deviations, reasoning that these standard deviations are not independent and that there is no easy way to utilize them. There may be another reason for not using them. The jackknife standard deviations for individual blocks given in their example are mostly in the range of 0.004 to 0.005 oz/st (0.14 to 0.17 g/t) with only one block having a high value of 0.012 oz/st (0.41 g/ t). These individual block standard deviations are as low as the jackknife standard deviation for the mean grade of the entire shape, i.e., 0.0041 oz/st (0.14 g/t). Do they represent the "true uncertainty" .of the individual block estimates? Could the authors explain this? In a global shape consisting of a large number of blocks, any given sample will affect the kriged estimate of only those few blocks within its vicinity. This is the rationale for the authors' selective rekriging, making the jackknife algorithm more efficient. On second thought, why not do away with jackknifing altogether? Just cumulate and normalize, if necessary, the kriging weights of each sample used during the ordinary block kriging process, and then compute the global variance from these kriging weights and their respective sample grades? After all, isn't the global mean grade nothing but the weighted average of the samples used in the estimation? Reply by G.S. Adisoma and M.G. Hester The jackknife is one of the many tools in a practitioner's toolbox to solve estimation problems. The strengths of the technique lies in its simplicity, i.e., it uses the concept of mean and standard deviation and the fact that it can be easily combined with other tools, in this case kriging. Because the jackknife kriging (JK) estimate is also the mean of the pseudovalues, the JK standard deviation is attractive just as the standard deviation of the mean explains the variability of the data. The difference is that the pseudovalue calculation in jackknife kriging uses the ordinary kriging (OK) weighting scheme instead of simple arithmetic averaging. The data used to illustrate the jackknife technique in the paper con¬sist of high values that are roughly three times the low values. The resulting JK estimate of the block grades show that the highest estimate is roughly twice the grade of the lowest estimate. The contrast between the low and the high estimate is more evident in the JK estimate than in the OK estimate, even though the mean grades of the blocks for the two estimates are very similar. Nonetheless, in this paper, we are concentrating more on the need for a more realistic measure of uncertainty, or precision, for the estimate. Unlike its OK counterpart, the JK standard deviation of the blocks clearly reflects the original data variation. The highest JK standard deviation of the blocks is three times its lowest value. This follows our intuition that, when the samples used to estimate a block is more variable, the resulting estimation variance (or standard deviation) should be higher than the case where the samples are more uniformly valued. However, block-by-block standard deviation or variance is of little practical value in reserve estimation and classification, as well as in mine planning. One is usually more interested in quantifying not the variance of the individual block estimate, but the uncertainties associated with a much larger dimension, such as the minable reserve. Thus, the thrust of the paper is to find a simple way to obtain a single estimation variance or standard deviation associated with the reserve grade estimate. The discussion by J.H. Tu did not mention how one would obtain the global variance from the OK weights and the sample grades. As a technique that offers a data value-based measure of uncertainty for its estimate, the "leave-one-out" jackknife fills this need nicely through the block kriging shortcut approach described in the paper. Note: The first column and the last two columns of Table 3 in the paper should have contained a single number each, namely, an OK estimate of 0.0317, a JK estimate of 0.0333 and a JK standard deviation of 0.0041 oz/st, respectively, for the shape, as are obvious from the text.

Jan 1, 1997

By R. J. Sweigard, R. V. Ramani

G.F. Learning The paper by R.V. Ramani and R.J. Sweigard is a wonderful description of the labyrinthine web that has been spun about the mining industry by energetic bureaucrats and politicians over the past 50 years. The remedy for the problem, however, is not more of the same, but less. That may be difficult for the industry to achieve, for it is not a technical solution but a political one. And the current fervor for more detailed planning at all levels of government and private enterprise has become deeply ingrained. The authors recommend the provision of more information about mining and mineral resources to "macro" (i.e., government) land use planners. They apparently overlook, however, the already strong tendency on the part of most government land use planners to consider themselves omniscient. Thus, giving them more information about the technical problems of mining will only make them want to get more and more involved in the "micro" (private, site specific) mine development and production plans of the individual mining firm. In fact, this has already happened at all levels of jurisdiction from municipal to federal government. Examples are legion. The most effective way to ameliorate the adverse impacts of government land use planning on existing and potential mining operations is to: (1) introduce greater flexibility in the definition of land use zones by local and state governments; (2) adopt realistic and relevant ambient environmental performance standards in governing relationships between mineral land uses and concurrent or subsequent nonmining land uses; (3) allow greater leeway for economic considerations in land use decisions in contrast to the explicit legalistic approach now in vogue; (4) recognize that all minerals are not the same and that sand and gravel mining should not be treated the same as underground metal mining, coal stripping, oil field production, or in situ leaching; and (5) eliminate the notion that mining operators should be responsible for determining in detail the use of land by subsequent owners of mined land. This last bit of conventional ethic really makes no more sense than requiring the builders of every shopping center or government office complex to provide detailed plans for the use of that land when its use for shopping or government is ended. Did the builder of Ebbetts Field plan for Brooklyn after the Dodgers went to Los Angeles? Should the developer of the Bingham Pit plan for suburban Salt Lake City after the copper mining goes to Chile? The nation's mining industry must address these questions before further bankrupting itself to provide more data to planners and spending thousands of dollars per acre to create land that when reclaimed is worth only a few hundred dollars per acre. Reply by R.V. Ramani and R.J. Sweigard We thank Mr. Leaming for his valuable contribution. His views on the problems of land use planning and mineral resources are most welcome additions to our paper. As the title indicates, our paper was more concerned with the impacts of land use planning on mineral resource conservation than with the details of the planning process. On the whole, his five recommendations would be helpful for mineral resource conservation. However, we would suggest that the argument he presents for his final recommendation does not address the differences between mining as a land use and commercial or institutional uses. We believe that this difference is the crux of the issue. We share Mr. Leaming's desire to ameliorate the adverse impacts of land use planning. Possibly the most detrimental impact is the loss of mineral resources. Any development, whether mineral or community, that does not give proper consideration to other resources can result in permanent loss or sterilization of resources. With proper planning, some of these losses can be avoided. As our paper indicated, one factor that limits the consideration of mineral resources, and ultimately leads to their sterilization, is the generally inadequate levels of resource characterization and understanding of the unique nature of mineral resources and mining operations. The last point raised by Mr. Leaming is also important. In terms of reclamation and land use planning in mining districts, we certainly do not advocate spending more than what the results are worth. The main thrust of the paper was to explore the avenues for conserving the mineral resources so that, at some appropriate time, the issue of mining and reclamation can still be addressed.

Jan 4, 1985