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By R. C. Urquhart, W. P. Channon, D. D. Howat

Discussion: The mode of current transfer between electrode and slag in the submBerged-arc furnace by w. P. CHANNON, R. C. URQUHART, and D. D. HOWAT J. MEINTJES I have read the paper with much interest, and I should like to make a few observations. (I) The experimental work deals with resistance heating by an electrode immersed in a slag... AUTHORS' REPLY We thank Mr Meintjes for his critical analysis and helpful comments arising out of his study of our paper. Possibly we should emphasize at the outset that our experiments all related to the conditions in which the lower portion of the electrode was immersed in molten slag. We believe, however,

Jan 12, 1974

G. A. Moore—The tin-fusion method has been a very favorable possibility for many years. The authors apparently have settled the question that delayed the method for a long time by showing that no hydrogen is absorbed in the tin. This, of course, is very important. I want to make a few remarks concerning the absolute accuracy of analysis, which must be the final basis for deciding among the various methods. From the figures in the paper, there seems to be some re-maining slight discrepancy on the actual amount of hydrogen present in various samples which may be presumed essentially identical. (This is of the order of the precision of individual analyses but appears in averaged results.) From the analyst's viewpoint, the tally of hydrogen content can be regarded as occurring in three portions. First is a large portion which comes off easily and automatically during sample storage and later on heating in the apparatus. This is fairly easily analyzed. Second is an item which may be either positive or negative in the tally sheet. In warm or hot evolution, this is a portion which, in practice, can never be re-

Jan 1, 1951

T.B.King (Depaytment of Metallurgy, Massachusetts Institute of Technology)— A valuable contribution of the authors is in the factual information which they have been able to gather; this type of information is quite difficult to obtain. In many respects, however, it would have been better if they had not subsequently embarked on a discussion of the chemistry of the converter process. It seems inconceivable that the authors do not refer to the papers of Schuhmann and his associates14 which have set the thermodynamic foundation for the whole copper smelting operation. In addition, a very useful review on the physical chemistry of copper smelting by Ruddle 5 appeared as long ago as 1953. An examination of this literature would have convinced the authors that there is no cause to be surprised at a correlation between the magnetic content and the silica content of converter slags, though they rightly point out that one should distinguish between the total magnetite content of the slag and the amount of magnetite which may be considered to be in solution. It is not true that the lowest melting converter slag is that corresponding to the eutectic between ferrous oxide and silica. The simplest slag system which can be considered is a three-component system, since both ferric and ferrous iron are present. As Schuhmann, Powell, and Michal have shown, there are lower melting compositions than this eutectic in the ternary system. The most unfortunate impression given by this paper is that the driving force for chemical reaction is determined by the heat of reaction: of course the entropy change must be taken into account. It would have been more correct to list, in Table VI, values for free energies of formation. Nor can it be said that the data in Table VI represent the "best available data." They do not corregtond with any of the recent, acknowledged sources. F. E. Lathe and L. Hodnett(author's reply)— We are pleased that Dr. King finds the factual information in our uawer of some interest. Dr. King suggests that it would have been better if our analysis and discussion of the data had been omitted, largely because our list of references is so. incomplete. If he will carefully read our introduction, he will see that the questionnaire was sent out in the hope of obtaining data which would throw light on certain questions relating to the use of converter refractories. We did not attempt (nor would the AIME have published!) a complete review of the literature on copper converting, as Dr. King has apparently assumed, nor indeed a complete analysis of the data submitted, but tried only to find a sound basis for the choice of refractories, taking into consideration common variations in converter practice. We hope our paper indicates that, by raising the silica content of the converter slag and operating at a higher temperature, the normal circulating load of magnetite can be greatly reduced, and the whole reverberatory-converter operation improved to a major degree, with resultant important savings. Under such operating conditions, chrome-magnesite brick may be expected to stand up better than those of straight magnesite. Regardless of the choice as between these brick types, however, we find the cost of converter refractories to be so low in comparison with other converter costs as to justify operation under the more severe conditions suggested. Valuable as are the papers by Schuhmann and associates and the book by Ruddle, we make no apology for omitting reference to them, nor for using heats of reaction without mention of entropy changes or free energies of formation. Our primary object was to interest the practicing copper metallurgist, with whose language we may claim to be fairly familiar; we think it would have been unwise to include the highly theoretical phases of the subject which Dr. King suggests. The interest shown in our preliminary paper presented at the New York meeting in 1956, and the trends in practice whtat we have observed since that time, suggest that we did not wholly miss the target. In conclusion, we sincerely hope that Professors King and Schuhmann will independently review the data obtained in our questionnaire and submit a paper giving their own recommendations as to the choice of refractories and the particular converter operating conditions which will result in the lowest overall cost of copper smelting and converting.

Jan 1, 1960

E. M. Fitchett (Johnstown, Pa.)—The fact stated by the authors that: "In the laboratory, without marked efficiency decreases, the authors have deposited zinc successfully from solutions containing as high as 1 g per liter of germanium," (p. 465, paragraph 3) is most unusual. A similar statement is made in the summary and conclusions: "Germanium alone, within normal operating limits does not cause large efficiency losses." The limits are not defined. These facts are directly contrary to much of the published history on the effect of germanium in zinc electrolysis. A description of the conditions leading to such a successful electrolysis would be of interest to all engaged in the production of electrolytic zinc. It is unfortunate that the authors of this paper did not determine the actual concentration of germanium and cadmium in the solutions which they electrolyzed after a zinc dust purification. This purification will take out a variable amount of these impurities, depending upon the composition of the dust, type of agitation, presence of activating agents, etc. Probably every electrolytic zinc plant in this country has accurate methods, both wet and spectrographic, for determining germanium and cadmium. These specific methods, adopted from the standard analytical literature, are often available to educational institutions for the asking. The headings of Fig. 2 and of the two tables, with their definite concentrations of germanium and cadmium (which are not so definite according to the footnotes) could possibly be somewhat misleading, since the actual amounts of germanium and cadmium present during electrolysis are not known. Even the 1 hr electrolysis time might be too short for a study of this type; 12 or 24 hr tests might be much better. Commercial solutions have been known that gave over 90 pct ampere efficiency during the first hour of electrolysis, but no metal at all after 24 hr.

Jan 1, 1953

R. W. Balluffi (Atomic Energy Div., Sylvania Electric Products Inc., Bayside, N. Y.)—Since porosity is known to form in the copper side of Cu-Ni couples during diffusion24,25 it is of importance to consider this factor in interpreting the large variations of chemical diffusivity with copper concentration reported for this system. The presence of porosity may affect the measurement of D in two ways: 1—density changes in the couple invalidate the usual solutions of the diffusion equation, and 2—the pores may act as short-circuiting paths when transport through the vapor or along internal surfaces is appreciable or else as open circuits when these effects are small. The error produced by the first effect may be estimated by a graphical analysis. Fig. 8 shows the porosity generated in the copper side of the Kirkendall interface of a pure nickel vs pure copper couple after diffusion for 350 hr at 1040°C in hydrogen. In Fig. 9 the actual diffusion curve which would be obtained by the usual slicing technique is shown as a solid line drawn to the same scale (from the data of da Silva and Mehl"). The amounts of porosity (obtained by lineal analysis) and of nickel are graphically represented by the hatched areas. The standard solutions of the diffusion equation are valid only when all volume elements of unit length and unit cross section contain equal numbers of atoms." It is possible to correct the experimental curve to satisfy this condition by shrinking the couple in the direction of diffusion in such a way as to eliminate the porosity.* The corrected diffusion curve obtained after

Jan 1, 1954

Impact Transition Temperatures of Some Pearlite-Free Mild Steels As Affected by Heat Treatments in the Alpha Range H. P. Tardif (Canadian Armament Research and Development Establishment, Quebec)—Mr. Josefsson is to be congratulated for his study of a most difficult subject and for the theories proposed to explain the re- sults. One point which, however, might not have received proper attention is that of the shape of the stress-strain curve at the yield point of quenched and furnace-cooled specimens and of specimens strain aged

Jan 1, 1956

J. D. Fast and J. L. Meijering (Philips Research Laboratories, N. V. Philips' Gloeilampenfabrieken, Eindhoven, Netherlands)— After the departure of our friend Dijkstra to the United States, investigations on the effect of alloying elements on the behavior of nitrogen in a iron were continued in Eindhoven. We too found internal friction curves with two separate peaks for iron containing nitrogen in addition to 0.5 atomic pct V or 0.5 atomic pct Mo. Our first publication on these investigations" appeared almost simultaneously with the paper now under discussion. At first sight our experimental results seem to be in harmony with their conclusions, but a closer examination reveals that in the case of the Fe-V-N alloy the abnormal peak is not controlled by one time of relaxation only. Whereas iron containing 0.5 atomic pct Mn or Mo absorbs an amount of nitrogen of about the same magnitude as that absorbed by pure iron under identical conditions, iron containing vanadium absorbs in addition one nitrogen atom for every vanadium atom. This last amount, far exceeding the first amount in the case under consideration, combines chemically with the vanadium and causes no internal friction. The "free" nitrogen in the vanadium alloy gives rise not only to a damping peak corresponding to that in pure iron but— due to the presence of VN particles in the metal—also to the abnormal peak at higher temperatures. The VN particles create interstitial sites around themselves where the free nitrogen atoms are bound much tighter than in the normal interstices. These abnormal interstices, therefore, will capture free nitrogen atoms rapidly, whereupon these give rise to the abnormal damping. The binding energy in the abnormal interstices is not the same for all, and with coarsening of the VN precipitate the distribution of these energies is displaced toward the side of stronger binding. This is deduced from a shift of the summit of the second peak toward higher temperatures (from 80" to 88°C in our experiments) caused by prolonged heating at 950°C. From the intermediate state where they cause the abnormal damping, the nitrogen atoms pass over rather rapidly into the fully precipitated state (iron

Jan 1, 1954

G. D. Kneip, Jr., and J. 0. Betterton, Jr. (Union Carbide & Carbon Corp., Oak Ridge, Tenn.)—The authors have contributed to the theory of zone melting by considering the effects of the solidification of the final zone on the distribution curves for the finite length bar. However, they do not consider in sufficient detail the restrictions imposed by the particular metals involved. Eq. 4 has the analytical solution which is equivalent to Pfann's' equation for normal solidification of the final zone. For distribution coefficients less than one, it is apparent from this form of the equation that, as the solidification approaches completion, the concentration attains extremely large values which are inconsistent with the density of physical materials. The necessary restrictions then are that the solute concentration cannot exceed the density of the alloy, or more frequently, the solubility limit in the solid phase. Secondly, the distribution coefficient cannot be constant from 0 to 100 pet solute unless the liquidus and solidus coincide over this whole region. It would thus be more correct to impose limits on the solubility such as would be indicated by a typical eutectic diagram. Furthermore, in this case the assumption that the distribution coefficient remains constant is more likely to be realized. Eq. 4 should then be replaced by the following C,,(x) =k/L-x [ ?11 3 C11 (x)Ddx - ?11 4 Cn(x)dx= k[Cn (L-l)/k] [ L-x/l]x-1 L-l = x = L-l [kCenterlie/Cn (L-l)]1/k-1 The typical shape for the distribution curve in the final zone is indicated schematically in Fig. 12 for the simple eutectic case. The solidification proceeds according to Pfann's' expression until the concentration reaches the maximum solubility in the solid phasc. At this point, the concentration changes abruptly to the eutectic composition and remains at this value for the duration of the solidification. The width of the flat region, and the back reflection of this effect into the concentration curve on subsequent passes, depends upon the ratio of the eutectic concentration to the original concentration, upon the distribution coefficient, and upon the number of passes. Similar effects on the concentration curves in the first zone length would be expected in many systems for which the distribution coefficient is greater than one, and where the maximum solubility is not too much larger than the original concentration. The discussers agree with the authors that the assumption that the liquid is uniform in concentration should be considered with caution. Kneip and Better-ton' have shown, however, that in floating zone refining of zirconium, using induction heating, the distribution of iron agrees with theory which assumes a uniform liquid composition. Hence, in this case, the experimentally realized distribution coefficient agrees with the present phase diagram within the experimental uncertainty. L. Burris, Jr., C. H. Stockman, and I. G. Dillon (authors' reply)—The authors are happy to have received the comments of G. D. Kneip, Jr., and J. 0. Betterton, Jr., which provide additional insight into the zone refining process. It is true that the equations developed are inapplicable if the solute solubility in the solid phase is exceeded. However, this restriction on the use of the equations was clearly stated in the paper. A closer approach to

Jan 1, 1957

T. L. Joseph (University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, Minn.)—Mr. Killian is to be commended for his inquiry as to why a decrease of 15.3 pct in coke consumption was accompanied by a decrease of only 1.9 pct in the CO/CO, ratio of the top gas. Although I encouraged him in his efforts to find a more significant and meaningful carbon-gas ratio, the method, calculations, and conclusions originated entirely with the author. Whether we agree entirely with the assumptions underlying his corrected ratio, I think we can all agree that a better ratio is needed, and that he deserves credit for recognizing the need and for doing something about it. To be most useful, the CO/CO, ratio for the top gas should reflect the way in which the carbon is gasified in the furnace, particularly the degree of oxidation and the extent of heat release. The effect of CO, from the decomposition of the limestone and the effect of the reaction of CO and water vapor in the upper part of the furnace on the quality of top gas should be isolated from the effect of more basic reactions such as ore reduction and solution loss. The reduction of sufficient iron oxide to produce a ton of pig iron and the accompanying changes in the proportions of the carbon gases can be expressed on a mol basis as follows: 16.5FeA + 16.5CO - 33FeO + 16.5CO, [1] 33FeO + 33.0CO = 33Fe + 33CO. [2] The CO, from eq 1 normally escapes from the furnace because it does not react with coke at the temperature of its release. However, as much as 50 pct of the CO, from eq 2 may react with coke because it is released at temperatures above 1000°C: 16.5CO. + 16.5CO2 = 33CO [3] Thus we see that the gasification of 16.5 mols or about 200 lb of C in solution loss will regenerate as much CO as is required for the last stage of reduction. The pronounced effect of reaction 3 on the final proportions of CO and CO, in the gas stream is obvious. It also follows that reaction 3 materially alters the heat release but it cannot be entirely eliminated in Lake ore practice. A previous study indicates that 100 lb of solution loss may be necessary to maintain the reducing power of the gas. A reduction of 100 lb from the normal level of 200 lb would mean that over 1,-000,000 additional Btu are released in the process. The 100 lb of additional carbon which will be burned at the tuyeres will release 437,000 Btu and the absorption of 583,000 Btu by eq 3 would be prevented. One of the chief objectives of sized ore burdens and more uniform distribution of the gas stream is to minimize solution loss by completing reduction higher in the furnace and in turn to release the maximum amount of heat from the carbon charged. It was odd, indeed, to find that the use of sized ore and sinter in the careful tests reported by Dobscha had changed the CO/CO2 ratio very little. The author has stressed the close correlation between his corrected CO/CO, ratio and production. A correlation of fuel consumption and the CO/CO, might be more logical. Fuel consumption on the prepared ore burden decreased 15.3 pct whereas the corrected CO/CO2 ratio decreased 19.0 pct. Although this agreement between the reduction in fuel and the reduction in corrected CO/CO2 ratio is not as close as the correlation with tonnage, it indicates the corrected ratio is superior to the normal ratio which decreased less than 4 pct. Some adjustment should be made for the reaction: CO + H2O = CO2 + H2 —700Btu [41 because there is evidence to indicate that about one half of the hydrogen is formed in the upper 21 ft of

Jan 1, 1953

E. A. Loria (Product Metallurgical Engineer, Crucible Steel Co. of America, Pittsburgh)—In this interesting paper, our introductory work was quoted. We would like to call attention to our sequel paper on the experimental determination of oxygen in cupola-melted cast iron,20 which was not mentioned. Vacuum-fusion oxygen values (as well as hydrogen and nitrogen) were reported for nine heats of cast iron melted in the Battelle 10-in. cupola under normal operating practice and under oxidizing conditions. The oxygen analyses ranged from 12 to 68 pprn compared to the author's computed range of 10 to 80 ppm. The average amount of oxygen found in our irons was about 20 pprn and changes in the silicon content of the iron from 1.32 to 2.35 pct had no consistent effect on the oxygen content of the iron. The gas determination specimens were poured in split steel molds that produced a clean pin, 3/8 in. diam and 2 in. long. Because freezing was almost instantaneous, the pins were entirely white iron (nongraphitic). In the early stages of the investigation, the pins were transferred to a mercury-filled trap system immediately after pouring. This was done to collect gas evolved between pouring and analysis. However, it was found that during storage for 4 weeks gas evolution was negligible. Because the vacuum-fusion analysis was usually completed within 4 days of pouring, pins from later heats were not stored in the mercury-trap system. We found some evidence that cast iron picks up oxygen during long storage, because of rusting. Earlier work by the British Cast Iron Research Association has shown that cast irons may be stored for a long time without significant change in their oxygen content. The practical significance of this study (and our own) would be in the improvement of cast-iron quality. Has the author investigated this aspect and reached any conclusions on the effect of oxygen on the mechanical properties of cast iron? The second phase of our study was to determine the properties of the test bars poured simultaneously with the gas analysis specimens. We realize that there may be complicating factors attendant in this procedure.21 Results from many test specimens measuring chill depth, transverse flexure and deflection strength, spiral fluidity, and sensitivity to hardness of gray irons ranging from 12 to 68 pprn oxygen showed that the lowering of transverse strength was the only significant undesirable effect of high oxygen content. A statistical study of the chill test results21 showed that the iron containing 22 to 46 pprn oxygen had forced chill depths that were 2/32 in. below the expected value from their composition, and irons containing less than 16 ppm oxygen had forced chill depths averaging 1/32 in. greater than the expected chill depth. Higher oxygen contents, within the range of 12 to 68 pprn did not increase forced chill depth. With the wedge tests, there was a good linear relationship between carbon equivalent of the irons and their chill depth. The results indicated that oxygen contents below 50 ppm in the iron did not affect chill depth. With 50 to 70 ppm oxygen in the iron, oxygen appeared to have a slight graphitizing tendency. These results are in disagreement with the common belief in gray iron foundries that "oxidized irons" produce high chill depths. It would be appreciated if the author would comment on this subject. Gustaf Ostberg (author's reply)—In Fig. 1 the legend of line I should read 2 pct C, 1 pct Si. The author wishes to thank Mr. Loria for calling attention to his later work, which was published after the present paper was concluded. The range of oxygen contents quoted seems to agree well with the author's values. The lack of response to variations in silicon content is probably due to the fact that the oxygen content in most cases was below the saturation level. The absence of temperature dependence, even in the case of saturation, is understandable if the difficulty in formation and escape of the deoxidation products is taken into account.

Jan 1, 1960

J. Chipman (Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Mass.)—The fact that the experimental work has been applied to copper rather than iron and that the paper is presented to the Iron and Steel Division, I regard as rather significant. It shows the unity of metallurgy and the fallacy of trying to cut it up by metals. This result for the solubility of sulphur in molten copper correlates with Professor Schuhmann's finding that the published data on the other side of the copper-sulphur miscibility gap are also in error. I should like to ask the author to say a little bit more about the sulphur capacity of the slag. T. Rosenqvist (author's reply)-—I hope that Dr. Chipman will find the derivation of the expression for sulphur capacity more clearly explained in the printed version of the paper than in the oral discussion at the meeting. I feel that this quantity, which actually is the ratio of two activities, can be measured more easily than the individual activities. Even if the ratio CaO/CaS is chosen as the standard state, the expression can be used for any slag, even for slags completely free of lime, and it represents a way to put the desulphurizing power of all slag constituents into one bag. Some doubt has been expressed as to whether oxygen ions really exist in calcium oxide and in molten slags. From a thermodynamic view point that question is of minor importance. The term oxygen ion activity, or any activity for that matter, is defined rigorously by the equation: activity = exp u/RT, where u is the change in free energy connected with the transfer of one mol of ions from the standard state into the slag. Whatever happens to the ion in the slag is of no concern to the thermodynamicist. Regardless of whether the ion is "free" in the slag or not, or whether it is present in a very small amount, its activity can always be expressed, and for a thermo- dynamic calculation that is all we need. However, ionic activities will only be of some real value if they are simple functions of the slag composition, or can be measured easily. Concerning the real nature of the oxygen in the slag, my feeling is that the oxygen atom has a rather multiplex nature depending on how strongly it is tied by covalent forces or polarized by the other atoms or ions present. The oxides of iron, cobalt, and nickel differ from calcium oxide and blast furnace slags as to the amount of free electrons that can give rise to electronic conductivity. In slags we know that the conductivity is mostly ionic. The fact that reversible emf's can be obtained with oxygen electrodes in certain salt melts, indicates a significant amount of oxygen ions in these melts. But extended work, e.g. polaragraphic studies and measurements of transference number; are needed to obtain quantitative information about the real structure of the slags. D. E. Babcock (Republic Steel Corp., Youngstown, Ohio)—-With reference to the ion, it might be well to remember Dr. Moses Gomberg. All of his life he had no use for the ionization theory and he contributed greatly to the field of chemistry on the assumption there was no such thing as ions. I do not think we have to worry about whether the oxygen is ionic or not. I think one thing specifically should be brought to your attention and this I think is one of the important contributions of Dr. Rosenqvist. He pointed out what we know as oxygen potentials or what is described as oxygen potentials. I have used this concept for a long period of time and I want to state that if this concept is properly applied, it vitiates much of what we have in the literature, or makes our usual ideas regarding oxidation seem primitive. That one thing is more valuable than almost all the rest of the discussion as a fundamental basis on which to build a reasonable in-

Jan 1, 1952

E. Hill, South Norwalk, Conn. (communication to the Secretary*) :—The phenomenon described by Dr. Ledoux, involving an apparently abnormal high temperature in the air-cylinders of compressors, has not been, so far as I know, discussed in technical literature. The common formula for the adiabatic compression of dry air does not account for heat suficient to flash ordinarily decent cylinder-oils, nor do the text-books include in their theoretical statements any quantitative consideration of the effect of leaks in the ideal machines which they contemplate. This lack I have endeavored to supply by preparing, in the form of a circular, for the use of the customers and correspondents of the Norwalk Iron-Works, a brief mathematical

Jan 1, 1904

Lawrence Addicks, Perth Amboy, N. J. (communication to the Secretary*): The excellent series of photo-micrographs given in this paper shows clearly the relation between micro-structure and cuprous oxide in refined copper. The authors suggest that this method of examillation might be substituted for the " button " method now used to control the refining of cop

Jan 1, 1904

Adolph Greiner, Seraing, Belgium:—I have nothing special to add to Professor Hubert's paper except to say that there are some little things that it would be well to have corrected when the paper comes to be published. In dealing with the thermal efficiency of the engine, you will find that the 29.84 per cent. was a very high one. Professor Hubert has forgotten those engines built under the Cockerill type, but he has referred to them in Appendix 11. At our works at Cockerill we have built 63 engines, giving 63,000 h.p., and the other companies who have received licenses have built 113 engines, making 103,000 h.p., and aggregating 176 engines and 166,000 h.p. Eight years ago I had the pleasure of giving to the Institute the results obtained up to that time. Since then a good many engines have been constructed. In 1898 I thought a blast-furnace producing 100 tons of pig iron would allow 3,000 h.p. Professor Witz and Professor Hubert show that with the same production of pig the new engines take 3,800 h.p. out of the gas. At present at Cockerill we make 700 to 800 tons of pig iron per day, and we hope to have 26,000 h.p. in a few years. At present we have only half of that in gas-engines, but we hope to have in five or six years all the gas out of these furnaces to the number of 25,000 or 26,000 h.p. Tom WEstGarth, Middlesbrough, England :—My contribution is not a paper in the ordinary sense of the word, because I am sure you will agree with me that what I have written is only supplementary to the other two papers. The notes are schedules of the larger-size gas-engines built by British engine-makers, of 500 h.p. and upwards. If you look at the schedules you will find that in England gas-engines have become quite ordinary motors for a good many purposes. It was at first thought that gas-engines were troublesome, and ill-

Jan 1, 1907

HeRbert A. MeGRaw, San Luis de la Paz, Guanajuato, Mex. (communication to the Secretary*) :—Although Mr. Bordeaux prefaces his paper with the statement-that it is a general outline of practice in the Republic, many of his statements seem to be made from the view-point of a particular case, which does not always agree with general practice. For the purpose of calling attention to some of these variations, I respectfully offer the following comments: The operation of crushing and grinding is performed by so many different methods and systems that it is useless to select any one as the standard. However, primary crushing in rock-breakers followed by stamps is thus far so general that it might be so classified. Whether or not it is the best way, is open to question. Regrinding may be performed by any of the various types of Chilean mills, Huntington mills, or similar machines, or the material may be taken directly from the stamps and delivered to the tube-mills. Mr. Bordeaux's statement that " the slimes can be treated only by decantation; the new Butters slime-filter, as used in Nevada, does not seem to be successful with silver-ores," is surely an error. All over Mexico many of the purely silver-ores are being successfully handled by the Butters or similar filters, such as the Moore and the Burt filters, and a letter to the manufacturers of these filters will undoubtedly bring a list of the silver-ores now being successfully treated in this way. The statement that crushing silver-ores in solution is impossible is equally erroneous. Most modern mills crush the ore in solution, in some cases containing as much as 0.12 per cent, of KCN. I cannot for the moment recall any modern mill in Mexico which does not follow this practice. There may be some reason for it in particular instances, but, generally speaking, the practice is to crush in solution. Care in installation avoids any mechanical loss of cyanide, and the chemical loss is so small as to be negligible.

Jan 1, 1910

A. H. Bromly, Zihuatanejo, Guerrero, Mexico (communication to the Secretary*):—The following criticism of what "is offered as a summary which may be found useful by mining engineers," is not dictated by any captious spirit, but in the intereet of historical and scientific accuracy. The States of Queretaro and Oaxaca have produced sufficient silver to warrant more extended notice. Referring to Pachuca, State of Hidalgo, the eomewhat loose and inexact statement is made that "the ore-depdsit is an andesite, intermixed with quartz-veins, rich from the surface." A better description mould be,—the ore-deposits consist of quartz-veins in andesite. It is notable that many of the rich shoots worked in recent days did not come to surface. In consequence, Pachuca is often quoted by the ill-informed as a camp in which values improve with depth, the truth being that the veins carry shoots, or clavos, some of which were exposed at surface and some not. The name of " electric plow," applied to the mechanical stirrer of recent use, is certainly not to be recommended. The stirrer, or agitator, consists essentially of a traversing gang-plow, operated by power through shafting; drums, and wire-rope. The fact that in certain plants the motive-power used is electricity does not make it an electric plow. Such a name suggests a machine of which the motor is an essential and integral part; which is not so in this case. A lathe in a factory driven by water-power is not called a hydraulic lathe. My experience agrees with Dr. Raymond's note as to azulapue, which in some districts is also applied to blue copper carbonate. The El Oro, Esperanza, and Mexico mines should be allocated to the State of Mexico; the Dos Estrellas being in Michoacan, as stated. The El Oro quartz certainly does not appeal to me

Jan 1, 1910

William Kent, New York, N. Y.:—The Institute may congratulate itself on the opportunity of reading the splendid address of President Brunton. It is an admirable summary of the progress that has been made in the mining and metallurgical arts in recent years. The paper rightly gives the chief credit for this progress to the aid which has been rendered to these arts by the advances in mechanics, chemistry, and electricity. It is notable that most of the headings in Mr. Brunton's address refer to the work of the mechanical engineer, the electrical engineer, and the chemist, rather than to that of the specialist in mining-operations. It seems that the most successful mining engineer of the present day is the one who makes the most intelligent application of the inventions and designs of engineers and others who are not directly engaged in mining. A tabulation of the headings of the address, grouped as below, shows this most clearly. Work of the Mechanical Engineer—Rock-drills, hoisting-machinery, tramming, pumping, ventilation, dredging, Sampling, concentration, briquetting, fume-recovery. Work of the Electrical Engineer—Electric machinery for hoisting, pumping, tramming, lighting and signaling, electric transmission, electric smelting. Work of the Chemist and Metallurgist—Explosives, chlorina-tion, cyanidation, roasting, lead-smelting, and copper-smelting. Work of the Geologist—Economic geology. Work of the Mining Engineer—Mine-mapping, surface-mining, timbering, tunneling; and planning and supervision of the work in general. The mining engineer of the present day, who is in responsible charge of a large plant, finds his chief work not in doing those things he was trained to do as a specialist, but in making use of the knowledge of geologists, chemists, and electrical and

Jan 1, 1910

DR. PeRsifor Frazer, Philadelphia, Pa. (communication to the Secretary):* Mr. Campbell's very interesting contribution, after complimentary mention, finally decides against the acceptance of the classification proposed by me in a paper bearing the same title and read at the Wilkes-Barre meeting, May, 1877.2 That paper was written primarily for the Second Geological

Jan 1, 1906

Mr. A. Bement, Chicago, Ill. (communication to the Secretary*) :—Mr. Campbell, in proposing his method of sampling coal-seams, has rendered an important service in insisting on the presentation of an adequate history of the sample; and it is to be hoped that his suggestion will meet with further recommendation. In my opinion it is fully as important that a complete description of the sample and the conditions surrounding its taking be given, as the results of the analysis itself; and if such should become standard practice, coal-analysis would assume greater value. As it is, the published data are very confusing, and only to an extremely small extent are they really useful. The method suggested by Mr. Campbell, however, cannot have a general application; for example, in the Eastern Interior coal-basin, particularly at the present time, the output consists largely in grades other than mine-run, which in Illinois, for the year 1905, was only about 24 per cent. of the total product; and inasmuch as Mr. Campbell's method of sampling cannot give values for any other grade than mine-run, my contention that, at best, it can have but a limited application, is apparent. To illustrate the argument, there are two coal-seams, with the characteristics of which I am particularly familiar; each seam, as it lies in the ground, contains almost exactly 10 per cent. of ash; the lump coal from one of these seams ranges from 10 to 11 per cent. of ash, but from the other seam it does not average more than 6 per cent., although, as before mentioned, the average percentage of ash in the full seam is the same for each case. A careful and proper sampling of coal-seams, to be followed by analyeis, is to be commended in connection with all investigation; in fact, it should precede any careful study. A serious error, however, may be made in attempting to use such results to set values on the product as shipped or received. The only

Jan 1, 1906

W. L. SaundeRs, New York City (communication to the Secretary*):—Notwithstanding the sweeping statements made by Mr. Clarke in this paper, the friends of compressed air are not dismayed. There is no war between electricity and compressed air. Each one has its field of usefulness, and in that field each is supreme. In spite of commercial interests, in spite of prejudices and the enthusiasm of the inventor, the thing that is best will survive and flourish. At least ten years ago, our engineering papers contained large advertisements and pages of reading-matter about the application of electricity to mines, recording the introduction of numerous rock-drilling plants, and claiming that the problem had been solved, greatly to the advantage of the miner and with promise of large profits to the manufacturers of electrical apparatus. Edison and Thomson labored to apply electricity to mines, and each believed that the probabilities of success were great. This was the period of the solelloid rock-drill, which mas admirably suited, theoretically, to the percussive principle and in the development of which hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent without satisfactory result. I have searched in vain for a standard mining equipment where electric rock-drills are in constant, commercial operation. During a recent trip made from New York to California, I visited most of the important mines of the West and failed to discover a single electric equipment, so far as this class of mining-work is concerned. If any one will inform me where there exists today an electric-drilling equipment in constant service in mines in the United States, I shall be glad to receive the information. Mr. Clarke has been for some years an active and intelligent writer on the subject of electricity for mining. Whenever his

Jan 1, 1904