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By G. F. Raymond

Discussion by G.F. Raymond Knudsen's study presents two curious conclusions: • The kriging of blasthole assays can systematically overstate mill head grades by as much as 21% as a result of unbiased sample variance. • No estimation method is able to reduce this bias to a small margin. The study is based on a simulation using real data and what are presumed to be actual variogram parameters from a real deposit. Although I have no doubt that the first conclusion (21% overestimation) is correct for the author's simulation, I do not believe this represents a realistic mining situation. Over the past 15 years I have done extensive comparisons between exploration drill-hole assays, blasthole assays and mill head grades on seven major open-pit mines, including some very erratic gold deposits. Commonly, nugget effects on blasthole variograms were 10% - 20% higher than on exploration variograms. And in one extreme case, the difference was 50%. Even in the extreme case, ordinary kriging on blastholes agreed well with the mill head grade over the long term. In Knudsen's simulation, the blasthole nugget effect is assumed to be 200% higher than exploration data's. He supports this by variogram plots from each. My guess is that the apparent, large difference between these variograms results from a failure to account for the proportional effect (blasthole assays are likely from a higher-grade area). A simple check would be a comparison of the variance of exploration samples nearest blastholes. As for a nearly conditionally-unbiased estimator of a large random error, the arithmetic mean of all of the data certainly qualifies, provided there is an even data spacing. As a corollary, so does simple kriging, which would include, in this case, a large weighting to the arithmetic mean. Similarly, using a large number of samples with ordinary kriging or indicator kriging would significantly reduce the bias in the case of a large nugget effect for the variogram.[ ] Reply by H. Peter Knudsen Raymond questions two conclusions in the paper. First, he wonders whether a 21 % overestimation represents a realistic mining situation. I agree that 21 % is high, but overestimation in the range of 10% to 15% is certainly common in my experience. Furthermore, several years ago I consulted on a gold mine that was experiencing a 45% overestimation due, predominantly, to poor blasthole samples: In further questioning of the 21 % value, Raymond wonders whether the nugget effect of the blastholes is really so much larger than the nugget values of the exploration data. It is consistently larger throughout the deposit. In my experience with six Nevada gold mines, the high nugget value is not unusual. In fact, for some reason, nugget values for blasthole samples are typically about 0.0005 (opt squared). I am of the opinion that this high nugget effect observed at many gold mines is predominantly due to the inherent inadequacies of the blasthole sample and subsequent sample preparation. The second conclusion Raymond questions is the inability of the estimators tested to reduce the conditional bias. In fact, the conditional bias is extreme with the polygon estimator and greatly reduced by ordinary kriging. However, it was not eliminated. Raymond suggests using simple kriging, or perhaps a larger number of samples, to reduce the conditional bias. The technique of simple kriging may be less affected by the random errors in the data, but I did not test the technique. Using a larger amount of data presupposes that too few samples were used initially. In ordinary kriging and indicator kriging, the screen effect comes into play and ensures that samples beyond the second screen are given zero weight. Hence, increasing the sample size does not change the estimates nor the conditional bias. The main point of my paper is that the random unbiased errors (a fact of life in blasthole samples) cause a conditional bias in our estimates. The mechanics by which the conditional bias is introduced are nicely explained by Springett. My paper simply shows that the bias is also present when working with linear estimators, such as ordinary kriging, and even with nonlinear estimators, such as indicator kriging.[ ]

Jan 1, 1993

By Y. C. Kim

M.S. Azun The article unfortunately has some serious flaws negating the usefulness of the paper. The authors claim that kriging (linear kriging) is superior to other methods such as polygon. This is not the case. The deterministic methods (referring to polygon, ID, IDS, etc.) should not be compared with the statistical methods (linear kriging, disjunctive kriging, etc.) because they differ not only in their assumptions, but also their tools used in estimation. Thus, they give different results. By comparing the results of deterministic methods and linear kriging, the authors conclude that polygon, IDS, and linear kriging give an average thickness close to the value obtained from realizations. Besides, they argue that linear kriging gives less variance than the others (Fig. 2). The first conclusion is expected, due to the well-known central limit theorem. The second is the result of the statistical properties of different estimators. Thus, the comparison presented in the paper is rather meaningless because the authors have failed to follow basic statistical procedures. The numerical results of different approaches to an estimation problem cannot be generalized. In conclusion, the paper is not a meaningful contribution, and sadly, quite erroneous. Reply by E.Y. Baafi and Y.C. Kim The two key contentions made by M.S. Azun regarding the paper are: deterministic methods should not be compared with statistical methods and, hence, the results are erroneous; and the paper does not make a meaningful contribution. The first contention is an academic one. Most practitioners in ore reserve estimation could care less whether the tool they are using falls under a deterministic or a probabilistic method, so long as it gives the desired answers. It is probably for this reason that, whenever any new tool such as linear kriging is introduced to practioners in the mining industry, they would like to see a comparison test performed between the existing and the more familiar tools with a new and "strange" tool. Only when a new tool passes such a test, the generally conservative mining community would begin to utilize the new tool to its advantage. The second contention, is a subjective one. The final judgment should be left up to the readers within the mining community. If kriging is accepted more among practitioners, partly due to the paper, then the paper makes a practical contribution to the state-of-the art in ore reserve estimation. Finally, M.S. Azun entirely missed two main points in the paper. The first is that any comparative study of kriging vs. Polygonal or IDS should be performed for local estimation and not for global estimation. In the past, kriging was frequently compared with other existing tools in its performance on global estimation. Such results were nearly identical due to the central limit theorem effect, which further prevented the acceptance of kriging by practitioners. The second point is that a single case study using an existing property, as it was frequently performed in the past, is not sufficient because results depend not only on the tool itself, but also on the nature of the mineralization.

Jan 3, 1984

By R. H. . T. Garnett

Contributed remarks on paper published in the Transactions, Mining industry section, vol. 100, September- December 1991, A121--45

Jan 12, 1992

By G. Johnston, P. K. Chatterjee, S. Holguin

M. Gershon The article is an excellent one, providing a basis for the conduct of the major tasks in underground mine planning and scheduling. I object to only one word. Since that word is featured in the title, it is a strong objection. The word used erroneously is optimization. There is no optimization performed in the article. By definition, an optimization is an approach that yields the best of all possible solutions. We can limit this definition to its narrowest sense, the optimization techniques of operations research such as linear programming, or broaden it to include less sophisticated search procedures that find the best mine plan or schedule. No such claim is made in the article. No optimization of any kind is performed. The major tool used is a simulation, which, in truth, is probably more appropriate for this problem than any optimization. But simulation does not optimize. It only allows for quick evaluation of many options, leading to the selection of the best plan "of those tried," not "of all possible plans." This article, of course, is not the first mining paper to make this error. It seems that the word optimization is used more to impress people than to refer to any act of optimizing. It is used in a way that implies "try to optimize"or "come close to optimize," but not to really do it. It is usually appropriate to quietly ignore this error. But when Dr. Chatterjee, who has done so much good work in true optimization projects and whose work I have come to admire, makes such an error, it is time to publicly dispute it. Having discussed this very point with him in the past, I am sure that he will agree. If he can support this position in his response, perhaps people will start to listen and we can reduce the number of false claims of optimization. This should be easy for him in this case since the approach he used, simulation, is the more appropriate one anyway.

Jan 8, 1988

By M. Gershon

The article is an excellent one, providing a basis for the conduct of the major tasks in underground mine planning and scheduling. I object to only one word. Since that word is featured in the title, it is a strong objection. The word used erroneously is optimization. There is no optimization performed in the article. By definition, an optimization is an approach that yields the best of all possible solutions. We can limit this definition to its narrowest sense, the optimization techniques of operations research such as linear programming, or broaden it to include less sophisticated search procedures that find the best mine plan or schedule. No such claim is made in the article. No optimization of any kind is performed. The major tool used is a simulation, which, in truth, is probably more appropriate for this problem than any optimization. But simulation does not optimize. It only allows for quick evaluation of many options, leading to the selection of the best plan "of those tried," not "of all possible plans." This article, of course, is not the first mining paper to make this error. It seems that the word optimization is used more to impress people than to refer to any act of optimizing. It is used in a way that implies "try to optimize" or "come close to optimize," but not to really do it. It is usually appropriate to quietly ignore this error. But when Dr. Chatterjee, who has done so much good work in true optimization projects and whose work I have come to admire, makes such an error, it is time to publicly dispute it. Having discussed this very point with him in the past, I am sure that he will agree. If he can support this position in his response, perhaps people will start to listen and we can reduce the number of false claims of optimization. This should be easy for him in this case since the approach he used, simulation, is the more appropriate one anyway.

Jan 1, 1987

By M. Lonoff

G. Campbell The paper by M. Lonoff looks at the importance of byproduct prices on copper production. The paper develops several interesting points on this topic, but there are some points in the theoretical discussion that could use further development. A couple of these theoretical topics will be considered here using the paper's framework of assumptions without concern about how realistic the assumptions are for the copper industry. Lonoff's theoretical model is based on a static, homogenous world where all copper/byproduct deposits are identical, and these deposits are the main source of these metals. Due to the importance of the byproducts to the production decision, the term coproducts will be substituted for the term byproducts to reflect more accurately this condition. The conclusion is drawn that a rise in coproduct prices necessitates a decrease in copper prices because copper production is increased as a consequence of increased coproduct production. The observation that real world behavior does not always follow this pattern is dismissed as "speculation." However, it can be easily shown that within this simple framework market forces might create the observed behavior. The key question to be answered is what causes coproduct prices to rise. Three possible cases will be used as illustrations. The first case is the one implicity assumed by Lonoff. Here, the demand for coproducts increases at all prices (an outward parallel shift of the demand curve) with the demand for copper remaining constant. As reported in the paper, the results are higher coproduct prices, an increase in coproduct production, and lower copper prices due to the resulting increase in copper production. The second case is when the supply of coproducts are constrained-leading to higher market prices. Copper production, as required by the simple model, is also reduced which Reply by M. Lonoff Campbell's comments give me an opportunity to clarify a few points in "Copper and Its Byproducts." That paper examined the affect of byproducts on the copper market and considered the relative riskiness of multi-metal deposits from an investment standpoint. That brief note made no attempt to be exhaustive. Nevertheless, Campbell's comments miss the point of the paper and necessitate a response. My "theoretical model" was static and I freely conceded after introducing the assumption of identical deposits that "none of the assumptions hold." These simplifying assumptions allowed me to bound the possible effects of higher byproduct prices on the copper price by assuming identical deposits and computing average price effects. I took great pains to subsequently explain that since deposits are not identical the identity of the marginal deposit might change due to byproduct price changes. In this case, average price affects will overstate the affect of byproducts on copper prices. According to Campbell, I dismiss as speculation any "real world behavior that does not always follow this pattern" (of metals prices moving in opposite directions). In the byproducts paper I noted that gold, copper, and silver price movements often parallel each other on an intra-day or day-to-day basis. Such movements are largely due to market anticipation of or reaction to changes in interest rates that affect carrying costs of metals stocks. Other movements may be due to anticipated changes in available supply or physical requirements. I loosely grouped these effects as speculative. To distinguish this statement from the main thrust of the paper, I contined "In the long run if gold and silver prices remain high the equilibrium copper price will be lower." The paper set out long run equilibrium conditions rather than attempting to explain price movements on a daily basis or on a year-to-year basis.

Jan 11, 1983

By G. Campbell

The paper by M. Lonoff looks at the importance of byproduct prices on copper production. The paper develops several interesting points on this topic, but there are some points in the theoretical discussion that could use further development. A couple of these theoretical topics will be considered here using the paper's framework of assumptions without concern about how realistic the assumptions are for the copper industry. Lonoff’s theoretical model is based on a static, homogenous world where all copper/byproduct deposits are identical, and these deposits are the main source of these metals. Due to the importance of the byproducts to the production decision, the term coproducts will be substituted for the term byproducts to reflect more accurately this condition. The conclusion is drawn that a rise in coproduct prices necessitates a decrease in copper prices because copper production is increased as a consequence of increased coproduct production. The observation that real world behavior does not always follow this pattern is dismissed as "speculation." However, it can be easily shown that within this simple framework market forces might create the observed behavior. The key question to be answered is what causes coproduct prices to rise. Three possible cases will be used as illustrations. The first case is the one implicity assumed by Lonoff. Here, the demand for coproducts increases at all prices (an outward parallel shift of the demand curve) with the demand for copper remaining constant. As reported in the paper, the results are higher coproduct prices, an increase in coproduct production, and lower copper prices due to the resulting increase in copper production. The second case is when the supply of coproducts are constrained-leading to higher market prices. Copper production, as required by the simple model, is also reduced which

Jan 1, 1984

By J. Gross

G. H. Clevenger, Chairman of the Milling Methods Committee of the Institute, made the following introductory remarks: "Several years ago, a number of us felt that the time was ripe for a fundamental investigation of crushing and grinding. At the outset, it appeared that the first thing we needed was a yardstick whereby grinding efficiency could be measured. "The U. S. Bureau of Mines has been most generous in cooperating with the Milling Methods Committee in getting this work well under way. John Gross, who served the committee for a year as secretary, was placed in charge of the investigation and has been ably assisted by S. R. Zimmerley. "Messrs. Gross and Zimmerley will now present the Progress Report covering their work to date." PROGRESS REPORT J. Gross, Salt Lake City, Utah. -This has not been a simple problem, and when I tell you that we can give you a verbal report of what we have done during three years in five or ten minutes you will realize that we have necessarily done a great deal of work that does not appear in the final results. We have been in a virtually new field. Therefore, we have had to feel our way at each step so as to be fairly sure we were correct. The first thing that was realized in this problem was that unless we had some method of measuring what happened when we crushed an ore, we might as well quit and not go further. We realized that if we tried to measure the results of crushing or grinding by the ordinary sizing test we would not get anywhere. We could sieve down to say 200 mesh fairly accurately; we could even go one sieve size further with a little less accuracy, and then we were absolutely lost, unless we went into microscopic measurement. Even this latter method would not have been satisfactory. The question was: what were we going to measure? If we were going to measure size, we might measure one particular dimension of a particle and be off 200 per cent. or more. If we tried to measure surface, we would have something tangible; the surface of a particle, no matter how irregular, is something definite, far more definite than any linear dimension would be. Moreover, if we could measure surface, we would immediately have a method of checking the Rittinger law as to whether it was or was not correct. So the first thing that we sought was a method whereby we could measure surface on crushed particles or, we will say, on particles; it would not make any difference whether crushed or not. It then became a question of what kind of particles we were going to use in obtaining a method for surface measurement. We realized that it would be rather a com-

Jan 1, 1928

As far as rapid determination of oxygen in liquid steel by means of a galvanic cell is concerned, I should like to summarize in a few words the activities of Centre de Recherches Metallurgigues (CRM) in Belgium. This work has been conducted both in a laboratory (Tammann and Induction furnaces) as well as on an industrial scale (converter and ladle). The galvanic cells developed by CRM are of two kinds: one with an air reference and one with a solid reference. As far as galvanic cells with air reference are concerned, we have tested numerous solid electrolytes (zirconia, spinel, and alumina). We finally chose zirconia sheathed with quartz. In order to be in a position to accurately determine the time when thermal equilibrium is reached, it was deemed useful to fit the galvanic cell with a Pt/Pt, Rh thermocouple, so as to follow the temperature variations at the interface of the solid electrolyte, until the temperature becomes equal to that of the bath. In actual fact the solution is highly interesting since it is possible to determine both the oxygen activity and the temperature of the bath with a single cell.

Jan 1, 1972

By M. G. Ayat, B. C. Scott

H. P. Ferri I refer to the article "Degradation Process in Coal Slurry Pipelines" by M.G. Ayat and B.C. Scott in the September 1988 issue of Mining Engineering. I would like to congratulate Dr. Ayat and his colleague on a very interesting and valuable piece of work. This article is an excellent one, describing a real phenomenon that has been ignored for so long. I do, however, have an objection. The article fails to address the degradation process when coal is processed or transported in other ways than slurry form, particularly those employed in this work. Could, for example, screening (wet or dry) have contributed to the extent of degradation? Perhaps scanning electron micrographs of the samples examined and after screening would have helped to clarify this. I would like to point out that degradation is also observed in pneumatic conveying systems, mechanical conveying, and other means of transportations employed by the mineral industry. Reply by M. G. Ayat We gratefully acknowledge Dr. Fern's comments on the subject paper. As he so rightly points out, the degradation process is a real problem, not only in coal slurry pipelines, but also in many handling and processing equipment employed by the coal and mineral industry. Scanning Electron Microscopic examination of samples may offer very little information about the extent of degradation for several reasons. One is that preparing a representative sample that has undergone degradation will be extremely difficult if not impossible. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that SEM requires only very small amounts of material for testing. Secondly, there is a sample preparation step involved in the SEM examination and, as such, it would be very difficult to associate the extent of degradation to either sample preparation or handling and processing operations. Finally, it is probably worth mentioning that degradation is a multi-faceted phenomenon involving many natural and man-made factors. The logical approach to this problem would, therefore, seem to be a "one-step-at-a-time" approach.

Jan 2, 1989

By G. Le Bel

Discussion by G. Le Bel The paper proposes three methods to determine optimum lifetime of a mining project 1. The conclusion is that the three methods arrive at the same optimum production rate (by coincidence). It is also stated that: "The stochastic and option pricing models, in addition to providing a more realistic optimum mine life than the traditional NPV (net present value) calculation, showed that the example project has the potential for substantially higher return. By explicitly considering a project's potential risks, the stochastic or option pricing techniques can more accurately describe its probable investment performance." This discussion is intended to demonstrate that: •It is no coincidence that the three methods arrive at the same optimum production rate. • The stochastic and option pricing models do not provide a more realistic optimum mine life than the traditional NPV calculation. •The potential for a substantially higher return is misrepresented. First, a review of investment decision theory in mining is needed. Net present value is the preferred performance measure because of the flexibility offered when comparing various alternatives. However, it presents the following disadvantages: • The discount rate selection is not straightforward. • The NPV obtained represents a deterministic characterization of the variables included in the cash flow calculations, i.e. a single-point estimate. Discount rate selection The opportunity cost of capital represents the rate of return that would be obtained if the capital was instead invested in other opportunities considered to exist. Such opportunities must be bypassed if the available capital is invested in the project studied 2. If these other opportunities carry risk similar to the project under analysis (for example, if they are other mining projects), there is no need to add incremental [ ] risk factors. On the other hand, if these opportunities are represented by the acquisition of government bonds yielding 7%, a risk premium factor must be included. The types of risks associated with a mining venture are shown in Table 1. Together they represent the "business risk" of being a mining company. The individual project risk is important to investors if it differs substantially from the business risk of the company and that of the other investments in mining ventures that we must pass up to invest in this particular project. A risk premium or discount would then be required. This can be illustrated by the following example. Consider that a company has two investment alternatives: one is the Cavender hypothetical project located in Nevada, and the other is the same project located in a civil war zone of central Europe. The second project requires a risk premium factor on the discount rate. Conversely, a project showing highly uncertain returns that are negatively correlated with the returns of the firm's other assets may decrease the company's corporate risk. Deterministic character of NPV calculation The cash flows used in NPV calculations are obtained from a set of variables. These variables are estimated using one parameter obtained from the engineering studies. Each parameter is thus a single value that is often termed a "realistic" or "best estimate" as opposed to "optimistic" or "pessimistic." However, considering that each variable can assume a range of values between the

Jan 1, 1994

By N. D. Policow, J. S. Orphanos

D.A. Dahlstrom In the paper, a comparison was made between flowsheets using the screen bowl centrifuge and disc filters, respectively, as the primary dewatering device. The authors very effectively show that by raising feed temperature, mechanical dewatering is enhanced through reduced viscosity of the water. When a final coal moisture of 10% is required, the net effect of heating the feed is a reduction in thermal requirements because of the lower evaporated load on the dryer. The flowsheet comparison on this, however, was not completely correct. Disc filters do not generally utilize enhanced mechanical dewatering through increased temperature. Horizontal belt filters, through the optimal use of steam heating of the filter cake, have shown significant cost reductions over disc filters where steam is not used. In addition, the authors forgot to mention that there is a certain fraction of the feed that is so fine that it cannot be recovered by the centrifuge economically. That is the function of the filtration device shown in Fig. 4. In subbituminous pipeline coals, this fraction represents more than 10% of the feed. Even after flocculation and belt pressing, the moisture content in the fine fraction is 30%-40. Recent tests on a subbituminous pipeline coal slurry, compared an Eimco-Extractor horizontal belt filter with the screen bowl centrifuge flowsheet shown in Fig. 4. Mechanical dewatering was enhanced through the use of a steam dry zone after the initial dewatering zone. Vacuum pump horsepower was reduced by more than 50% through the use of condensors, and heat recovery was utilized to minimize thermal costs. Thermal drying to 10% moisture by weight was required in both flowsheets. The 0.5 wt% fines in the filtrate were flocculated and recycled to the filter, thus eliminating the belt press and solids mixers. When the three major operating costs (which normally account for 50%-75% of the coal operating costs) of steam, electricity, and flocculants at current prices were calculated, the flowsheets utilizing the Eimco-Extractor had cost savings vs the centrifuge flowsheet of 89¢/t (81o; per st) of surface dry coal. This advantage increases with increasing thermal and electricity prices. I congratulate the authors for the strides made with the screen bowl centrifuge. However, filtration flowsheets continue to be improved and their simplicity and low thermal and electrical requirements should not be so quickly dismissed. ? Reply by N.D. Policow From a technical standpoint, a number of extensive test programs have demonstrated that by raising the feed temperature, mechanical dewatering is enhanced whether it be centrifuges or filters performing the separation. Economic constraints usually become the over-riding issue. If an inexpensive source of thermal energy is available, i.e., waste steam, etc., the approach becomes commercially acceptable. For the specific case of coal slurry pipelines, since the dewatering plants will be located close to power generation stations, the preheating approach becomes especially attractive. The cost comparison shown in Fig. 7, which was prepared by a major West Coast engineering firm, contrasted screen bowl centrifuges and disc filters. In both alternatives, a thermal dryer was specified to produce a contract moisture of the final product. Sizing of the thermal dryer on the screen bowl alternative was substantially smaller than that of the filter, since the screen bowl was credited with a four to six percentage point decrease in product moisture compared to the disc. This comparison was made at ambient temperatures and reflected solely the mechanical dewatering capabilities of the two devices. No preheating of the feed was included in this particular comparison. Early generation screen bowl centrifuges operated under the principle of maximum bulk tonnage throughput. Second and third generation machines have followed the trends dictated by the coal industry calling for higher one-pass recoveries than previously demanded. The current generation of high-speed, long-bowl centrifuges permit recoveries of ultrafine solids directly comparable to commercial filter operation. On typical coal preparation plant feeds with nominal 600 E. an X 0 (28 mesh X 0) clean coal, recovery levels in excess of 99% are now obtained. The material that does escape the centrifuge and reports to the main effluent is typically -10 µm, high ash material. We have documented substantial beneficiation effects in screen bowl centrifuge performance with the cake product containing lower ash levels than the feed. On the referenced pipeline, coal tests performed on Western subbituminous coal, we found that the percentage of -10 µm material in the feed was six to eight times greater than normally encountered on eastern Appalachian seams. Our 45-t/h (50-stph) production centrifuge was never set up to maximize recovery. It was used as part of the two-stage dewatering circuit that had been chosen by designers of the proposed pipeline. Recoveries up to 95% were recorded. With field adjustments, that performance could most certainly have been improved. In contrast, manufacturers of the horizontal belt filter provided a small pilot-scale unit that operated on a side stream at the test facility. Numerous combinations of chemical additions were evaluated to determine those that had the best impact on filter performance. Whereas the screen bowl centrifuges operated without chemical addition, producing a dry, fluffy cake, the belt filter required two stages of chemical addition to attain satisfactory performance and high recovery levels. On the two-stage circuit that incorporated a belt press as the secondary

Jan 12, 1983

By D. A. Dahlstrom

In the paper, a comparison was made between flowsheets using the screen bowl centrifuge and disc filters, respectively, as the primary dewatering device. The authors very effectively show that by raising feed temperature, mechanical dewatering is enhanced through reduced viscosity of the water. When a final coal moisture of 10% is required, the net effect of heating the feed is a reduction in thermal requirements because of the lower evaporated load on the dryer. The flowsheet comparison on this, however, was not completely correct. Disc filters do not generally utilize enhanced mechanical dewatering through increased temperature. Horizontal belt filters, through the optimal use of steam heating of the filter cake, have shown significant cost reductions over disc filters where steam is not used. In addition, the authors forgot to mention that there is a certain fraction of the feed that is so fine that it cannot be recovered by the centrifuge economically. That is the function of the filtration device shown in [Fig. 4]. In subbituminous pipeline coals, this fraction represents more than 10% of the feed. Even after flocculation and belt pressing, the moisture content in the fine fraction is 30%-40. Recent tests on a subbituminous pipeline coal slurry, compared an Eimco-Extractor horizontal belt filter with the screen bowl centrifuge flowsheet shown in [Fig. 4]. Mechanical dewatering was enhanced through the use of a steam dry zone after the initial dewatering zone. Vacuum pump horsepower was reduced by more than 50% through the use of condensers, and heat recovery was utilized to minimize thermal costs. Thermal drying to 10% moisture by weight was required in both flowsheets. The 0.5 wt% fines in the filtrate were flocculated and recycled to the filter, thus eliminating the belt press and solids mixers. When the three major operating costs (which normally account for 50%-75% of the coal operating costs) of steam, electricity, and flocculants at current prices were calculated, the flowsheets utilizing the Eimco-Extractor had cost savings vs the centrifuge flowsheet of 89c/t (81c per st) of surface dry coal. This advantage increases with increasing thermal and electricity prices. I congratulate the authors for the strides made with the screen bowl centrifuge. However, filtration flowsheets continue to be improved and their simplicity and low thermal and electrical requirements should not be so quickly dismissed.

Jan 1, 1984

By J. L. Snoek

[ ] DISCUSSION J. L, SNOEK*-Stress-induced preferential diffusion in cubic body centered metals in the annealed state provides us with a powerful tool for determining the mobility of interstitially solved atoms as well as their location in the lattice and the exact nature of the distortion brought about in the lattice by their presence. Calculations given by D. Polder31 show that the distortion of the lattice, besides being proportional to the applied stress P, is also proportional to [VC, RT + xVCo] where T, V and Co are the temperature, molar volume of the solvent and molar concentration of the solute respectively and x is a constant describing the mutual interaction energy of the dissolved particles. This calculation obviously is no longer valid if x is negative and the abso¬lute value of xVCo surpasses that of RT. The lattice may then be expected to become tetragonal spontaneously. Such a spontaneous tetragonality seems to have been observed by W. Klemm and L, Grimm for the case of oxygen solved in vanadium.32 Measurements of the internal friction in cold worked iron containing carbon or nitrogen should provide us with information on the mobility as well as the preferential location of these particles in the iron lattice in the cold worked state. The work by T'ing-Sui Kê is a valuable contribution to this problem, The data obtained by T'ing Sui Kê and myself on cold worked samples of iron seem to indicate that carbon and nitrogen in these samples are found either in the normal (1/2 , 0, 0) interstices or in a new preferential position created by the cold working. The latter positions in my opinion can hardly by anything else but the edges of the dislocations. The observed larger distances of diffusion might be explained by assuming that the carbon atoms when freed from a certain dislocation by thermal agitation must diffuse over several atom distances before being caught in another dislocation. The theory however needs working out and no doubt will be much more complicated than the one valid for the annealed state. T'ING-SUI KÊ (author's reply)-It is highly encouraging to read the written discussion given by Dr, Snoek who initiated the theory of stress-induced preferential diffusion in cubic body centered metals in the annealed state, Since the presentation of this paper, the author has done more experimental work on this subject which seems to be able to settle several of the points raised by Dr. Snoek. It has been found that such stress-induced preferential diffusion occurs also in the solid solutions of carbon,33 oxygen,34 and nitrogen35 in tantalum which has a body centered cubic structure. Analysis of the shape of the observed internal friction. peaks indicates that the inter-

Jan 1, 1948

[ ] DISCUSSION F A LORIA*-The method of testing gun steel for resistance to surface cracking described in this paper was restricted to the examination of small, rod-shaped specimens The writer would like to point out the importance of other factors in producing defects in forged and bored gun tubes which would not be apparent in this investigation because of the nature of )he test Actual section size would accentuate the possibility of internal wall (bore) defects arising from unequal expansion between the internal and external wall surfaces on firing, resulting in internal tearing Checks and tears on the inside walls arise from internal tensions and nonuniformity on cooling, but the internal tearing can be reduced by using alloys of low expansion and of good thermal conductivity so as to reduce the difference between the outer and inner wall surfaces Also, the possibility of the location of inclusion segregates within a machined gun tube becomes more likely than in a small test specimen The effect of these nonmetallics on gun life and performance is evident when one realizes that the inclusions are soft yet brittle They reduce the amount of plastic deformation which can take place before cohesive failure occurs Once localized fracture has occurred at the position of a chain of these inclusions, a sharp notch (crack) is formed which produces stress conditions more favorable to cohesive failure than to plastic deformation These cracks aid erosion by providing channelways for the explosive gases, eventually leading to the tearing out or spalling of blocks of metal Oxidation of the surface may be partly responsible for the change in the surface of gun steel during firing observed by the author The appearance of burn on the surface is an indication that high temperatures were reached on firing, resulting in a slight oxidation of the surface Since the color of the oxidized film depends on both temperature and time, a higher temperature is required for a given color to form when it is caused by explosive heat, which acts for only an extremely short time at a given spot, than when it is caused by ordinary tempering The cross section of the gun steel specimen, Fig 16, illustrates that the repeated firing temperatures were high enough to cause

Jan 1, 1948

By John D. MacFadyen

Subject paper unfortunately has some serious flaws negating the usefulness of the paper. The authors claim that sulfur is the major source of production problems in cement kilns. This is not the case. Sulfur is not a problem as long as the mole ratio of sulfur to alkali oxides is less than, or equal to, 1. This is attributed to the sulfur preferentially combining with the alkali oxides and not acting as a clogging agent due to the nature of the pre-heater vessels. Where the mole ratio exceeds 1, many methods are avail- able to eliminate or reduce the clogging problems such as using the preheater bypass or a precalciner with up to 100% kiln gas bypass. In non-preheater kilns, the presence of sulfates is hardly ever a problem anyhow. Thus, the level of sulfur in the fuel and raw material that might cause problems is not a fixed amount, but is predictable. The purpose of the paper is to discuss the economics of conversion of kilns in the Indonesian and Phillippine cement industries from oil firing to coal firing. This economic analysis has very little to do with the sulfur levels. Thus, the section of the paper on sulfates is actually rather meaningless. The economic analysis is also rather meaningless because the authors have failed to follow accepted economic analysis procedures by including interest charges. They have fallen into the trap of confusing financing with economic evaluation. When the accepted methods of economic evaluation are used, the return on investment increases to about 35%. In conclusion, the paper is not a meaningful contribution, and sadly, quite erroneous.

Jan 1, 1983

By A. G. Sciulli, G. P. Ballock, K. K. Wu

Waste disposal underground is the most effective method when viewed from an environmental aspect. As costs of other methods of disposal continue to escalate, the cost effectiveness of underground disposal during the mining cycle becomes increasingly attractive. The use of concrete for sealing abandoned mines has proved to be suspect when associated with a relatively incompetent adjacent strata due to its shrinkage characteristics. Complete failure of the plug has been known to occur in some instances. A more effective, cost competitive seal can be obtained using pneumatically stowed material and incorporating a polyurethane grout, which has greater adhesion characteristics than concrete. Injection of the surrounding strata and of the stowed material helps to ensure an impervious barrier and prevent the plug from moving when subject to high pressure heads. When properly placed, impervious seals cause the old workings to flood, raise the mine pool level, and thus eventually eliminate the potential for oxidation, which is the primary cause of acidity in the water.

Jan 11, 1986

By V. Miller

C. Hertzler The difference of means of milling characteristics by rock and ore type is tested in a statistical manner in the paper. The null hypothesis being tested is that the sample means of two different populations are equal. It is assumed that the null hypothesis is true when performing the test. Because of this, acceptance of this hypothesis leads to the conclusion that the sample means of the two different populations are equal (or there is no significant difference between the sample means), not that the samples come from the same population, as the author asserts. Rejection of the null hypothesis leads to the conclusion that the sample means of the two different populations are not equal. A P value for this test is reported in Table 2 and is incorrectly identified as the probability that the two samples came from different populations. Actually, what was recorded was 100(1 - p) where p is the usual p-value. The usual p-value measures, on a scale of zero to one, the extent to which the data agree with the null hypothesis. It is the probability of observing a value of the test statistic (Z score) that is at least as contradictory to the null hypothesis as the one computed from the sample data (McClave and Dietrich II, 1982). The author makes no mention of the fact that were these tests to be conducted together, the chances of determining that the null hypothesis is not true when it is really true are increased considerably (Snedecor and Cochran, 1980). This is a multiple comparisons problem and should be dealt with accordingly. The usual methods involve adjusting the level of the individual tests. Table 2 reports an incorrect 100(1 - p) value in the comparison of concentrate grades for other rock types with .30 to .69 % Cu vs other rock types with .70 + % Cu; 86 % should be 98.6 %. Although the article can be criticized for poor data presentation and discussion of that data, the point the author makes regarding the use of these statistics in the ore reserve estimation process is well taken. It does not appear that inaccuracies in the statistical interpretations have hindered that usefulness. References McClave, J.T., and Dietrich, II, F.H., 1982, "Statistics," Dellen Publishing Co., San Francisco and Santa Clara, CA, 766 p. Snedecor, G.W., and Cochran, W.G., 1980, "Statistical Methods," The Iowa State University Press, Ames, IA, 561 p. Reply by V. Miller After reading Ms. Hertzler's comments, it appears that the differences noted were basically semantics. If the paper is ever presented at a math symposium, some changes will be needed. When deciding the best way to present the data to mining engineers and geologists, I decided that presenting the probability that the two sample groupings came from different populations (reverse to the Null hypothesis) was easier and would require less verbage to explain. Hence, the 100(1 - p) difference which was noted. Ideally, I would have preferred to give the recovery and concentrate grades, then comment which ones had significant differences. Unfortunately, Kennecott Corp. did not grant permission to publish the ore body's actual recoveries and concentrate grades. The conclusion is that there was, as expected, a relationship between the ore's geologic properties and the metallurgical properties, and by determining this relationship, the overall mineral model was greatly improved.

Jan 8, 1984

By C. Hertzler

The difference of means of milling characteristics by rock and ore type is tested in a statistical manner in the paper. The null hypothesis being tested is that the sample means of two different populations are equal. It is assumed that the null hypothesis is true when performing the test. Because of this, acceptance of this hypothesis leads to the conclusion that the sample means of the two different populations are equal (or there is no significant difference between the sample means), not that the samples come from the same population, as the author asserts. Rejection of the null hypothesis leads to the conclusion that the sample means of the two different populations are not equal. A P value for this test is reported in Table 2 and is incorrectly identified as the probability that the two samples came from different populations. Actually, what was recorded was 100(1 - p) where p is the usual p-value. The usual p-value measures, on a scale of zero to one, the extent to which the data agree with the null hypothesis. It is the probability of observi" a value of the test statistic (Z score) that is at least as contradictory to the null hypothesis as the one computed from the sample data (McClave and Dietrich 11, 1982). The author makes no mention of the fact that were these tests to be conducted together, the chances of determining that the null hypothesis is not true when it is really true are increased considerably (Snedecor and Cochran, 1980). This is a multiple comparisons problem and should be dealt with accordingly. The usual methods involve adjusting the level of the individual tests. Table 2 reports an incorrect 100(1 - p) value in the comparison of concentrate grades for other rock types with .30 to .69% Cu vs other rock types with .70 + % Cu; 86% should be 98.6%. Although the article can be criticized for poor data presentation and discussion of that data, the point the author makes regarding the use of these statistics in the ore reserve estimation process is well taken. It does not appear that inaccuracies in the statistical interpretations have hindered that usefulness.

Jan 1, 1985

By Roussey Roussev

The use of chemical additives on grinding is of significant importance considering the high energy consumption of grinding processes. My research indicates that the dispersant approach explains the effects, in this particular case of wet grinding. Further, the dispersant approach combined with torque measurements give the possibility of clarifying the mechanisms involved when using grinding aids. I find the conclusions derived from the data obtained to be correct and useful for grinding. In general, I agree with the explanations. However, I would like to discuss several additional points that I consider to be important, and in the same time to mention some of my own results from investigations similar to those presented in the study under discussion. The "bed volume concept" and the change of slurry viscosity explain adequately the data plotted on [fig. 3], in conjunction with [Figs. 1 and 2]. However, the significant increase of the average torque in the case of 83% solid with XFS-4272 introduces the necessity of establishing the optimum of percent solid when dispersant is used. For example, the optimum percent of solid for different materials varies. One of the reasons is the material's mass density. On the other hand, it is necessary to determine the concentration of the chemical used. Because of this, it would be interesting to know how the cited concentration was selected.

Jan 1, 1983