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By R. J. Sweigard, R. V. Ramani

G.F. Learning The paper by R.V. Ramani and R.J. Sweigard is a wonderful description of the labyrinthine web that has been spun about the mining industry by energetic bureaucrats and politicians over the past 50 years. The remedy for the problem, however, is not more of the same, but less. That may be difficult for the industry to achieve, for it is not a technical solution but a political one. And the current fervor for more detailed planning at all levels of government and private enterprise has become deeply ingrained. The authors recommend the provision of more information about mining and mineral resources to "macro" (i.e., government) land use planners. They apparently overlook, however, the already strong tendency on the part of most government land use planners to consider themselves omniscient. Thus, giving them more information about the technical problems of mining will only make them want to get more and more involved in the "micro" (private, site specific) mine development and production plans of the individual mining firm. In fact, this has already happened at all levels of jurisdiction from municipal to federal government. Examples are legion. The most effective way to ameliorate the adverse impacts of government land use planning on existing and potential mining operations is to: (1) introduce greater flexibility in the definition of land use zones by local and state governments; (2) adopt realistic and relevant ambient environmental performance standards in governing relationships between mineral land uses and concurrent or subsequent nonmining land uses; (3) allow greater leeway for economic considerations in land use decisions in contrast to the explicit legalistic approach now in vogue; (4) recognize that all minerals are not the same and that sand and gravel mining should not be treated the same as underground metal mining, coal stripping, oil field production, or in situ leaching; and (5) eliminate the notion that mining operators should be responsible for determining in detail the use of land by subsequent owners of mined land. This last bit of conventional ethic really makes no more sense than requiring the builders of every shopping center or government office complex to provide detailed plans for the use of that land when its use for shopping or government is ended. Did the builder of Ebbetts Field plan for Brooklyn after the Dodgers went to Los Angeles? Should the developer of the Bingham Pit plan for suburban Salt Lake City after the copper mining goes to Chile? The nation's mining industry must address these questions before further bankrupting itself to provide more data to planners and spending thousands of dollars per acre to create land that when reclaimed is worth only a few hundred dollars per acre. Reply by R.V. Ramani and R.J. Sweigard We thank Mr. Leaming for his valuable contribution. His views on the problems of land use planning and mineral resources are most welcome additions to our paper. As the title indicates, our paper was more concerned with the impacts of land use planning on mineral resource conservation than with the details of the planning process. On the whole, his five recommendations would be helpful for mineral resource conservation. However, we would suggest that the argument he presents for his final recommendation does not address the differences between mining as a land use and commercial or institutional uses. We believe that this difference is the crux of the issue. We share Mr. Leaming's desire to ameliorate the adverse impacts of land use planning. Possibly the most detrimental impact is the loss of mineral resources. Any development, whether mineral or community, that does not give proper consideration to other resources can result in permanent loss or sterilization of resources. With proper planning, some of these losses can be avoided. As our paper indicated, one factor that limits the consideration of mineral resources, and ultimately leads to their sterilization, is the generally inadequate levels of resource characterization and understanding of the unique nature of mineral resources and mining operations. The last point raised by Mr. Leaming is also important. In terms of reclamation and land use planning in mining districts, we certainly do not advocate spending more than what the results are worth. The main thrust of the paper was to explore the avenues for conserving the mineral resources so that, at some appropriate time, the issue of mining and reclamation can still be addressed.

Jan 4, 1985

By G. F. Leaming

The paper by R.V. Ramani and R.J. Sweigard is a wonderful description of the labyrinthine web that has been spun about the mining industry by energetic bureaucrats and politicians over the past 50 years. The remedy for the problem, however, is not more of the same, but less. That may be difficult for the industry to achieve, for it is not a technical solution but a political one. And the current fervor for more detailed planning at all levels of government and private enterprise has become deeply ingrained. The authors recommend the provision of more information about mining and mineral resources to "macro" (i.e., government) land use planners. They apparently overlook, however, the already strong tendency on the part of most government land use planners to consider themselves omniscient. Thus, giving them more information about the technical problems of mining will only make them want to get more and more involved in the "micro" (private, site specific) mine development and production plans of the individual mining firm. In fact, this has already happened at all levels of jurisdiction from municipal to federal government. Examples are legion. The most effective way to ameliorate the adverse impacts of government land use planning on existing and potential mining operations is to: (1) introduce greater flexibility in the definition of land use zones by local and state governments; (2) adopt realistic and relevant ambient environmental performance standards in governing relationships between mineral land uses and concurrent or subsequent nonmining land uses; (3) allow greater leeway for economic considerations in land use decisions in contrast to the explicit legalistic approach now in vogue; (4) recognize that all minerals are not the same and that sand and gravel mining should not be treated the same as underground metal mining, coal stripping, oil field production, or in situ leaching; and (5) eliminate the notion that mining operators should be responsible for determining in detail the use of land by subsequent owners of mined land. This last bit of conventional ethic really makes no more sense than requiring the builders of every shopping center or government office complex to provide detailed plans for the use of that land when its use for shopping or government is ended. Did the builder of Ebbetts Field plan for Brooklyn after the Dodgers went to Los Angeles? Should the developer of the Bingham Pit plan for suburban Salt Lake City after the copper mining goes to Chile? The nation's mining industry must address these questions before further bankrupting itself to provide more data to planners and spending thousands of dollars per acre to create land that when reclaimed is worth only a few hundred dollars per acre. ? Reply by R.V. Ramani and R.J. Sweigard We thank Mr. Learning for his valuable contribution. His views on the problems of land use planning and mineral resources are most welcome additions to our paper. As the title indicates, our paper was more concerned with the impacts of land use planning on mineral resource conservation than with the details of the planning process. On the whole, his five recommendations would be helpful for mineral resource conservation. However, we would suggest that the argument he presents for his final recommendation does not address the differences between mining as a land use and commercial or institutional uses. We believe that this difference is the crux of the issue. We share Mr. Learning's desire to ameliorate the adverse impacts of land use planning. Possibly the most detrimental impact is the loss of mineral resources. Any development, whether mineral or community, that does not give proper consideration to other resources can result in permanent loss or sterilization of resources. With proper planning, some of these losses can be avoided. As our paper indicated, one factor that limits the consideration of mineral resources, and ultimately leads to their sterilization, is the generally inadequate levels of resource characterization and understanding of the unique nature of mineral resources and mining operations. The last point raised by Mr. Learning is also important. In terms of reclamation and land use planning in mining districts, we certainly do not advocate spending more than what the results are worth. The main thrust of the paper was to explore the avenues for conserving the mineral resources so that, at some appropriate time, the issue of mining and reclamation can still be addressed. ?

Jan 1, 1986

By G. Chi, M. C. Fuerstenau, R. C. Bradt, A. Ghosh

Technical Papers, Mining Engineering Vol. 49, No. 12, pp. 70-75, Discussion by McIvor, R. and Fink, R. P. We must challenge what we consider to be dubious statements in the above-mentioned article. Much of what is reported was published elsewhere over a year ago (i.e., in their reference: Chi, G., Fuerstenau, M.C., Brandt, R.C. and Ghosh, A., 1996, "Improved comminution efficiency through controlled blasting during mining," International Journal of Min¬eral Processing, Vol. 47, p. 93). There is nothing unusual or significant about a 10% or more difference in grindability between two materials of apparently similar origin and other attributes (such as chemical assays, hardness and specific gravity). Consider also that: • the materials came from different locations in the pit; • only two sets of four blastholes were considered per blast: • spatial orientation with respect to the face and other blastholes was also altered; • only two pairs of data were collected; • the impact of sampling error and bias, • both of which could be significant in this case; and • normal experimental error in parameter measurement and calculation. It is clearly inappropriate to draw any conclusions with regard to cause-and-effect relationships without first presenting a thorough error analysis. A substantial number of randomly selected test and control areas might provide meaningful statistical evidence of the claimed effect of the variables being studied. Even that appears doubtful, however, because Figures 3 and 4 show about as much variation in crushing energy for the two "regular" conditions vs. regular and altered conditions. On a separate, but also important issue, broad experience with autogenous/semiautogenous milling has shown that smaller or weaker feed material results in reduced tonnage. ? Reply Thank you for the opportunity to respond to the comments of Messrs. Mclvor ant Fink. The points raised are addressed in the order of presentation. As the commenters noted, there are parallels between this article and a previous manuscript. The reason for these complementary articles is that the audiences for the two publications are different, although there is obviously some overlap. We believe that the different audiences each profit from the technical aspects of the two manuscripts. We are not in agreement that a grindability difference of 10% is insignificant. The laboratory work is corroborated by data obtained at plant scale, which confirms that an increase in throughput of the same magnitude (between 5% and 10%) is achieved when the blasting pattern is modified, i.e., reduced from 9 to 8 m (29.5 to 26.2 ft). This increase in throughput translates into substantial power savings for ore grinding. No differences in appearance in the rock were noted between the two adjacent areas. Rock in both areas belonged to the same rock mass/block, which was quite homogeneous and without geological features in between that could create drastic differences in comminution characteristics. Given the resources, we would have sampled from all of the holes. Additional data would certainly have been desirable, as would have been additional funding to expand the study. Their comment, "spatial orientation with respect to the face and other blastholes was also altered," is not clear. Figure 1 does not show the initiation sequence. Without the initiation sequence, we do not understand how the commenters concluded that spatial orientation with respect to the face and other blastholes was altered. The commenters may be trying to make the point that the four-hole configurations with respect to the original bench face are not exactly the same. In fragmenting the

Jan 1, 1999

K. T. Aust and J. W. Rutter (General Electric Research Laboratory)—We find it difficult to reconcile the activation energies determined by Gifkins with his general conclusion that "migration during both creep and grain growth can thus be treated on the basis of the same model" (that of Lucke and Detert). Gifkins finds the activation energy for grain boundary migration during creep to be 24.5 kcal per rnol and that for grain boundary migration during grain growth to be 7.5 kcal per mol. The calculation carried out by Gifkins of the activation energy for grain boundary migration during grain growth, using the Lucke and Detert model, gives a value of 20 to 24.5 kcal per mol, rather than his experimental value of 7.5 kcal per mol. The theory of Lucke and Detert was developed to account for the rates of migration of grain boundaries in the presence of impurities during grain growth. The theory does not take into account the effect on the boundary migration of another, simultaneous process such as creep deformation and would be expected, therefore, to be applicable only to migration during grain growth. The fact that Gifkins measured a different activation energy for boundary migration during grain growth (7.5 kcal per mol) from that during creep (24.5 kcal per mol), although the specimens were of the same composition, shows clearly that such an effect exists under his experimental conditions; the presence of a simultaneous creep deformation markedly affects the boundary migration process in comparison with what would be observed under the same conditions but without the creep deformation. The failure of McLean's equation (Eq. [4] of Gifkins' paper) to give a satisfactory dislocation density difference for boundary migration during creep is not surprising, since the activation energy which must be used in this equation refers only to the elementary atom transfer process of grain boundary migration. This activation energy value is approximately 6 kcal per mol for zone-refined lead, as determined in both the grain boundary migration experiments of Aust and Rutter31, 32 and the grain growth experiments of Bolling and Winegard.33 Using this activation energy value, McLean's equation gives reasonable agreement with observed migration rates for grain boundaries moving free of the influence of impurities.31, 32 The value of 24.5 kcal per mol is probably associated with the presence of impurity atoms, as Gifkins suggests. It should be noted, however, that this value was obtained using lead of only one composition and measurements at only two temperatures. The work of Aust and Rutter3"' on the effects of tin, silver, and gold on grain boundary migration in zone-refined lead in the temperature range from 320" to 200°C, as well as the work of Bolling and Winegard34 on the effect of silver and gold on grain growth in zone-refined lead, shows that the measured activation energy is markedly dependent upon the kind and amount of solute present. Gifkins' work does not permit evaluation of the effect of the 8 ppm of impurities other than oxygen present in his specimens. One incidental point: the symbols used to designate the experimental points of Fig. 6 appear to be in incorrect order in the figure caption. As the caption is printed, it would indicate that larger grain sizes were obtained after annealing at 47°C than at 100°C, which does not agree with the text (point M, p. 1019). Finally, it seems clear from Gifkins' results that any serious attempt to determine whether grain boundary migration and grain boundary sliding during creep occur with the same activation energy, as Gifkins suggests and McLean rejects, must take into account the effects of impurities on these two processes, Although the work of Weinberg35 indicated that adding small amounts of copper, iron and silicon to aluminum did not affect the grain boundary shear behavior, it should be noted that his starting material contained approximately 60 ppm of impurities. Gifkins' results indicate impurity effects at an impurity level of 8 ppm, suggesting strongly that the most significant impurity range to be investigated lies substantially below that value. R. C. Gifkins (author's reply) — As Drs. Aust and Rutter suggest, the results under discussion may have to be reinterpreted in the light of their own work on grain boundary migration, which was not available to me when the paper was written. Because of their work, Aust and Rutter attach more importance than I did to the activation energy for grain boundary migration during annealing (7.5 kcal per mol) obtained from a "direct" plot of log-rate against the reciprocal of absolute temperature. At the time it was obtained, this value seemed rather low, although it was similar to the value obtained by Bolling and Winegard.36 It was then, and still is, difficult to accept this value because of the low value of the index in the power law for grain growth, which seemed to indicate the influence of impurities. It was also concluded that the low value of the activation energy might have arisen from the manner of selecting rates of grain growth which were truly comparable at the two temperatures. There were many other indications in these experiments and those on recrystallization during creep3? that an impurity, probably oxygen, was of importance. The model for grain-boundary migration which Lucke and Detert had proposed was an obvious possibility and its use yielded an activation energy for boundary migration during annealing of 20 to 25 kcal per mol.

Jan 1, 1961

By G. Sanders

Discussion by G. Sanders The studies reported on in this paper were initiated to draw attention to the severe contamination problem in the Section 30 drilling program at Chimney Creek. The lithologic-subset sampling study reached a different conclusion from that presented in your paper, and I wish to comment on your subsequent analysis of the data and your conclusions. Request for more complete data In the section on subsampling, you mention that the subordinate lithologies were separated and sampled, yet only the dominantlithology gold value is plotted in Fig. 4. In a contamination study, the reader is interested in the assay values for the individual subsets. Please include a table of the subsample assay data in your reply. Also, please indicate which analytical methods were used to arrive at the gold values in the subsampling study. Turning barren rock into low-grade ore Figure 5 is very revealing and typical of all of the cross sections in Section 30. Note the long strings of low-grade mineralization spread out for hundreds of feet below the ore zones. There were some very high gold values found in certain contaminated fractions during the subset sampling. The conclusion, here, was that the distinctive, strongly-mineralized dolomite layer was probably loose and crumbly and continued to disintegrate during drilling. This caused salting of the unmineralized rock samples below. Missing the high-grade part of the ore body In your statistical analysis, you directly compare the reverse circulation assays to the diamond drill assays in Section 30. Two points argue against a direct comparison and suggest the differences are greater than the 3 % that you report. First, any core loss in a gold zone most likely means that the true gold values are greater. The drillers lost significant amounts of the clay-rich, Section-30 gold mineralization. Also, the initiated salt-mud system, an attempt to improve the core recovery, met with little success. Second, the practice of not sampling core geologically, but instead sampling on even 5-foot intervals, adds a deliberate dilution to the core assay values by including a portion of nonmineralized rock in the first and last samples of each high- grade intercept. The result is often a pair of low-grade assay values on either side of a high-grade gold zone. In reality, a high-grade gold zone has a very sharp assay wall that is often bounded by barren rock. This sampling method may make the diamond-drill core assays more like the reverse circulation values and may help explain the statistical similarities you found. However, it does not represent the true gold values in the high-grade parts of the deposit. You cannot deny that, by careful geological sampling of the drill core, higher and sharper assay values will be obtained. The low core recovery and the diamond-drill-core sampling method used act together to lower the diamond-core assay values. The 3% difference you found between the reverse-circulation and diamond-core assay values could be much larger when you consider what the true diamond-drill core values would be with optimum core recovery and a geologic sampling method for the core. Should statistics have been applied here? The statement "... that reverse circulation holes have overestimated the values of some ore zones and underestimated the values of others" (p. 345) is not correct. The subsampling confirmed what the cross sections hinted at in Section 30. Namely, beneath the high-grade zones, the reverse circulation holes created, by contamination, large intercepts of low-grade ore in regions of barren rock. Because the low-grade material was not there to begin with, this is not a process of overestimating low-grade mineralization. The next statement that "the average result is similar to that of the diamond drill holes" may apply to the data set numerically, but it is not true when viewed spatially on cross sections. Adjacent reverse circulation and diamond drill holes are almost impossible to correlate, high-grade zone values vary widely and many low-grade intercepts make no geologic sense. The subset sampling and cross sections presented in the first part of the paper show that the reverse circulation portion of the data set has some serious problems, as highlighted above, and should not have been dealt with statistically at all. Conclusion Each ore body is different, and each drilling method presents unique sampling problems. In this case, the diamond drill is the

Jan 1, 1994

By H. W. Graham

[ ] Even though we have a small audience, I am sure there are some here who are interested in sponge iron. It is a large subject, with a lot of economic interest, and one that will continue to grow in importance as the years go by and as the conditions that urge action in that direction increase. The authors have chosen to deal in this paper with one particular narrow phase of a long program of work by the Bureau of Mines. Before asking for any general discussion, I would myself like to ask Mr. Buehl if he would tell us just a little bit about the mechanism of discharge and the form in which the material was discharged; that is, when dolomite is added, what happens to the dolomite? R. C. Buehl (author's reply)-You are interested in the equipment that was used? H. W. GRAHAM-No, just the product. R. C. Buehl-The product was in granular form, of a shape very similar to that of the ore used. Using minus 10-mesh ore, the product is essentially minus 10-mesh, mixed with the coal and dolomite. It is then passed through a belt type of magnetic separator, which picks up the magnetic iron and allows the dolomite and coal to fall off. If the coal is sufficiently valuable, it can be separated from the dolomite and, provided the coal has a sufficiently low ash content, it can be reused. For instance, if a low-ash reducing agent like petroleum coke is used, it can be reused until all the carbon is consumed. H. W. Graham-That clears the point for me. I was not quite sure whether the experi-

Jan 1, 1947

1. What Effect Has Sulfur Or Vanadium (In The Oil) On The Steel With Your Burner? 2. Also, what is the decibel rating on the floor when your burner is on? AUTHORS' REPLY 1. There is no effect. 2. The decibel rating is 98-99 decibels.

Jan 1, 1972

By R. C. Kirkman

Your interesting and well-written paper brings up the issue of the purpose or use of a mineral property appraisal, specifically the value of these evaluations when the quality and quantity of the mineral resource to be exploited have not been thoroughly investigated. I am not a practicing professional in regards to valuation of limestone investment opportunities. I simply wish to make a few generic observations about the appraisal process in order to stimulate meaningful thinking by appraisal professionals whose reports may be reviewed by professional investors and "laypersons" alike. It is my contention that the analysis given in your paper is very thorough, considering the data that was made available to you. But I would not like to be the person responsible for investment decision making without having a feel for the risk involved. Therefore, the reviewer must classify this type of analysis as relatively "subjective" because they have not received an indication of the inherent risk involved in exploiting a mineral resource. This risk can best be quantified by using probabilistic methods in conjunction with the quality and quantity of the mineral to be produced. Most appraisals passively ignore this problem. Specifically, you have accurately identified the various costs and values entering the economic appraisal process. These can usually be quantified with a great deal more certainty than the capability of the resource to provide 25 years of quality material. Also, in Cases A (West Virginia)and B (Alabama), you are fortunate enough to have previous operations data. What if there had never been production from these properties? How does a potential mineral property investor evaluate the resource capability to meet various projected financial outcomes without spending a good deal of up-front capital to drill and delineate enough quality resources for a 20-plus year operation. These questions pose a substantial risk to any potential mineral investor. Only probabilistic methods should be used to quantify this type of problem, short of drilling and metallurgical testing. I might be considered a "layperson," not being familiar

Jan 1, 1991

By Harlowe Hardinge

[Crushing Tests by Pressure and Impact (T.P. 1895, by F. C. BOND,, Min. Tech. Jan. 1946). Discussion by H. HARDINGE and the author 1 Pumping Sands, Slurries and Slimes and Installation and Performance of Sand Pumps (T.P. 2013, by W. B. STEPHENSON, Min. Tech., May 1946 and T.P. 1978, by C. G. SOUTHMAYD, Min. Tech., March 1946). Discussion by OSCAR LEE, G. J. HOLT, L. D. ANDERSON, and the author 2 Rapid Polarographic Method for Determination of Copper, Zinc and Lead in Flotation Tailings (T.P. 2010, by G. A. CROWE and W. T. BISHOP, Min. Tech., March 1946). Discussion by E. H. ROSE and the authors 4 Ball Wear and Functioning of the Ball Load in a Fine-grinding Ball Mill (T.P. 1984, by W. I. GARMS and J. L. STEVENS, Min. Tech., March 1946). Discussion by J. F. MYERS, E. W. DAVIS, F. M. JARDINE, H. HARDINGE, F. C. BOND and the authors 5 Correlation between Mineral Behavior in Cataphoresis and Flotation (T.P. 2005, by A. M. GAUDIN and S. C. SuN, Min. Tech., May 1946). Discussion by 0. C. RALSTON, G. L. SIMARD and D. J. SALLEY 7 Accident Experience in Milling (T.P. 1981, by J. F. MYERS and S. E. SHARP, Min. Tech., May 1946). Discussion by C. E. MCKNIGHT, C. H. BENEDICT, T. S. WILSON and S. POWER WARREN9 Mill Design for Labor Economy (T.P. 1997, by NORMAN WEISS, Min. Tech., May 1946). Discussion by R. S. HANDY and the author13] Crushing Tests by Pressure and Impact (0.C. Ralston presiding) HARLOWE HARDINGE.*-Has the impact method described in the paper been used to compare the resistance to reduction in size of various materials with actual operation results of mills in the field? Is this impact method a better index of the true resistance to grinding under actual field conditions than other methods the author has reported in the TRANSACTIONS? F. C. BOND (author's reply).-The impact crushing device was designed to measure relative resistance to crushing, or what may be called the crushability, and is not used for comparing the resistance to grinding, or grindability. The correlation between crushability and grindability of different materials is not at all close, since fractures, zones of weakness, and structural features of rock have a much greater effect upon the crushability than upon the grindability. We still depend upon our standard grindability tests for measuring resistance to grinding, and use the impact crushing tests only in relation to crusher installations. The impact crushing device has several advantages over the measurement of crushing strength in pounds per square inch as an index of crushing resistance.

Jan 1, 1946

By C. W. Hunt

I wish to register strong disagreement with the choices of drilling sites chosen by the Continental Scientific Drilling Committee, while endorsing the stated objectives. Of special significance is the lack of any site involving the metals most needed today in the US, while 9 to 13 km of drilling are allocated to gold and silver districts and 11 to 17 km to base metal (mainly copper) districts. Why is nothing proposed for platinum group or chromite? Is this because the committee did not know of such a site? If so, I offer such a site in California (see Fig. 1). The mineralization shown in Table 1 occurs in a large peridotite body in western Tehama County, CA. Petrography has demonstrated unequivocal evidence of migrated PGE deposited in peridotite and chromite of hypabyssal nature. Active diapirism (due probably to serpentine buoyancy) above a reactivated mantle to surface conduit marks the position of the conduit. Young explosion breccia cemented loosely by volcanic glass and tuff demonstrates the significance of the conduit as the prime source of the various emissions. Deep drilling could result in major metals discoveries as well as shedding light on the grand questions of platinum group mineralization. What role water has played in this occurrence is not yet certain; but chlorine and asphaltite have been detected in and adjacent to native PGM, suggesting a major role for water. The explosion breccia suggests that this excellent site could overlie entrapped geothermal steam.

Jan 1, 1988

By C. Meyer, J. J. Eidel

C. W. Hunt I wish to register strong disagreement with the choices of drilling sites chosen by the Continental Scientific Drilling Committee, while endorsing the stated objectives. Of special significance is the lack of any site involving the metals most needed today in the US, while 9 to 13 km of drilling are allocated to gold and silver districts and 11 to 17 km to base metal (mainly copper) districts. Why is nothing proposed for platinum group or chromite? Is this because the committee did not know of such a site? If so, I offer such a site in California (see Fig. 1). The mineralization shown in Table 1 occurs in a large peridotite body in western Tehama County, CA. Petrography has demonstrated unequivocal evidence of migrated PGE deposited in peridotite and chromite of hypabyssal nature. Active diapirism (due probably to serpentine buoyancy) above a reactivated mantle to surface conduit marks the position of the conduit. Young explosion breccia cemented loosely by volcanic glass and tuff demonstrates the significance of the conduit as the prime source of the various emissions. Deep drilling could result in major metals discoveries as well as shedding light on the grand questions of platinum group mineralization. What role water has played in this occurrence is not yet certain; but chlorine and asphaltite have been detected in and adjacent to native PGM, suggesting a major role for water. The explosion breccia suggests that this excellent site could overlie entrapped geothermal steam.

Jan 6, 1987

By R. V. Colligan

[CONTENTS PACE Educating and Training Economic Geologists of the Future. By C. H. BEHRE, JR. (TP 2278, Min. Tech., Nov. 1948. Discussions by R. V. COLLIGAN and EVAN JUST) ....... I Mercury Industry in Italy. By EDWIN B. ECKEL. (TP 2292, Min. Tech., Jan. 1948. Discussion .............................. by C. N. SCHUETTE) 3 Chert in the Kingsport Formation at Mascot, Tennessee. By ARTHUR T. ALLEN. (TP 2299, ............... Min. Tech., Jan. 1948. Discussion by M. M. BUTLER) 5 Wall Rock Alteration at Butte, Montana. By RENO H. SALES and CHARLES MEYER. (TP 2400, Min. Tech., May 1948. Djscussions by C. D. HULIN, W. D. JOHNSTON, JR., and L. C. ................................... GRATON) 5] Educating and Training Economic Geologists of the Future R. V. COLLIGAN*-I can best illustrate my opinions by drafting another five year plan (Table 2). This plan is set up following the same stipulations outlined by Dr. Behre, namely: (I) the student is preparing himself for commercial work as a mining geologist; (2) he is attending an institution with a sufficiently broad curriculum (that is, engineering school and mining school as well as liberal arts college) to furnish the courses listed; and (3) he is not planning to continue his studies through to a doctor's degree before going into commercial work. A comparison of my study plan (Table 2) and that submitted by Dr. Behre (Table I) will at once point up the basic similarity, due to the obvious fact that there are so many essential courses which must be included in any outline of study. However, a more detailed analysis will show up certain differences, which, in fact, are only certain refinements on Dr. Behre's program. These I plan to discuss in order of their importance. The first and most important change is the addition of 12 hr of optional subjects, making a total of 24 hr of optional subjects as against a total of 12 hr under Dr. Behre's schedule. This of course entails the elimination of certain courses, which I shall discuss later. However, I wish to make it clear that I suggest eliminating these courses not because I feel that they are unnecessary, but rather because I feel the optional courses are more necessary to the complete education of the individual. I appreciate that Dr. Behre recognizes the importance of the cultural side of education, but I take issue with his thesis that the student will get it without credit and in his spare time. I do not think that the average college student, and certainly not the college freshman, is mature enough to know what he needs and where to get it in his spare time. I think it must be "spoon-fed"; he must be oriented through specific courses. University life (or should I say "college life") is too full of athletics, fraternity activities, dances, "bull sessions," and countless other enjoyable distractions, all of which contribute to the "full man." I fail to see how the average young American male can possibly sandwich in a necessary complement of "cultural activities" in his spare time. Since these latter activities do not fall within the pattern set by the "group," and show less promise of immediate return in enjoyment, or increased social status on the campus, they are bound to suffer in competition with the more popular, "group" activities. No doubt much of the criticism levelled against arts colleges, namely, that the cultural courses are useless, is well taken, for the culture

Jan 1, 1947

By M. M. Botz, F. W. DeVries

Discussion by F.W. DeVries Comments on natural cyanide attenuation. The paper by Botz and Mudder in the November 2000 issue of Minerals and Metallurgical Processing had one disappointing aspect. Table 1 (p. 229) failed to include a significant species - neutral copper cyanide (CuCN). This compound has been most trouble-some in many plant-scale cyanide cleanup processes, includ- ing acidification-volatilization- reneutralization (AVR), hy- drogen peroxide cleanup and air/SO2 cleanup. It has also plagued many pilot efforts to use ion-exchange (IX) resin technology. This author elucidated the concept that, under some conditions, copper cyanide failed to precipitate out of treated effluents and appeared to exist as a filterable colloid that reported as copper and cyanide, with the latter measured as WAD (weak-acid-dissociable) cyanide in that analytical method. The concentrations measured were very near the levels of 0.2 ppm, often the regulatory limit for WAD cyanide. The copper concentration, using the 1 : 1 ratio for this com- pound, would then be more than 0.4 ppm, which could also be unacceptable. We discovered that it was unsafe to assume that the Cu(CN),- would surrender both cyanide ions simultaneously and allow cupric copper to be removed subsequently as, say, cupric ferrocyanide (Hatchett's Brown). This compound could be ignored as safely as the "iron blues," as essentially an inert solid, stable in geologic time if not exposed to sunlight. Under poorly controlled oxidation of the cyanocuprite ions (copper with four, three or two cyanides complexed to the copper), CuCN could well be formed and could not be assumed to precipitate out as a solid. The authors of the paper, by failing to include the CuCN species in their model, may have left users of the model prone to ignore the possible occurrence of the colloidal(?) form in the discharge, thus finding an effluent that failed to meet regulatory limits. (See addendum below.) This somewhat ephemeral material may well have been responsible for some large-scale failures of cyanide destruction technology to succeed at sites in North America and elsewhere. Two specific references alluding to this occurrence may be found: Griffiths et al., 1987, "The detoxification of gold-mill tailings with hydrogen peroxide," Journal of the South African Institute of Mining and Metallurgy, September, p. 282. DeVries, 1989, "Improved understanding in detoxification of cyanide leach liquors using peroxide" Rand01 Gold Conference, Sacramento CA, p. 15 1. It is advisable for workers in this area of cyanide removal or recycle to avoid assuming that CuCN will, with certainty, precipitate out of solution, or that the dicyanocuprite ion will part simultaneously with both cyanide ions and allow cupric copper to be dealt with by other reactions. One further piece of work may be incomplete. That is, a definitive study of the long-term behavior of CuCN that does precipitate when exposed to other compounds present in neutralized tailings. Addendum. The extremely complex reaction of cupric ion on cyanide- which, of course, results in oxidation of cyanide to cyanate, probably through the intermediate stage of forming cyanogen [(CN)2] from oxidation of HCN with its hydrolysis to cyanate and cyanide ion - involves two cyanide moieties and the reduction of the cupric ion back again to the cuprous state. This, then, can form the CuCN potential "solid" that was already the undesirable species. In cyanide cleanup, with either air/SO2 or hydrogen peroxide, copper is generally employed as the catalyst, so it is unclear what happens when the CU(CN)2-1 is ultimately exhausted. Certainly, the field evidence is quite clear that all

Jan 1, 2002

By S. D. Thompson, L. Adler

J.R. Sturgul Thompson and Adler (1988) present a new simulator for use in designing conveyor belt systems for underground mines. Their model uses a large Fortran program to do a Monte Carlo simulation. Their approach is similar to that done by other researchers, such as Stanford (1965) and Newhart (1977). All Fortran based simulation models use an imaginary clock that is advanced a time increment. At each advance of time increment the program has to determine what is to take place in the system. Since many things can take place at different places in the system, this approach requires that a large amount of logic is needed at each step of the program. This, then, necessitates a great amount of jumping between different portions of the program. In fact, the Fortran program, CMBCS, takes up to 15 to 20 minutes to run on the mainframe and several hours for the PC. Such execution times are typical of Fortran based simulation studies. There have been other examples of Fortran based simulation studies in mining. Cross and Williamson (1969) presented a model of a working open-pit copper mine. Fosinato (1982) presented a model of the bucketwheel excavators for the large open-pit mines in Southern Victoria in Australia. These excavators discharge into a complex conveyor system, which can be thought of as being similar, but more complicated than the one modeled by CMBCS. All previous simulation studies using Fortran as the source code have several things in common: they all are very lengthy, often being of the order of 10,000 lines of code and take a great deal of CPU time to execute. The program of Fosinato takes more than 4.5 hours to run on a large mainframe. Also not mentioned by Thompson and Adler is the actual time it took to write the Fortran code. This, too, can be considerable, as Fosinato's program took several man years to write and de-bug. In order to change it, as the parameters change or as the mine increases, further large amount of time is needed. An alternate to such Fortran based programs is provided by using a special computer language known as General Purpose Simulation System (GPSS). This language is designed to solve a wide variety of discrete event simulation problems and appears to be particularly suited for mining situations as shown by Sturgul and Yi (1987). Although GPSS was introduced as far back as 1961, it has not been used in mining to any great extent. However, the original form was quite crude and inefficient compared to modern versions. Perhaps with the increasing popularity and availability of these recent versions, this will change. Two such versions are GPSS/H for the mainframe and GPSS/PC for the personal computer. GPSS/H allows for interactive usage, such as allowing input data to be entered via a menu. GPSS/PC has excellent graphical capabilities and one can actually view the simulation in progress. In addition, one can halt the simulation and change values of various parameters. If a particular portion of the simulation is in progress via a concept known as "microwindows." These new versions have greatly increased the potential for using the language for mining situations. Mining applications of GPSS have been given by Sturgul and Yi (1987), Sturgul and Harrison (1987), Sturgul (1987), and Sturgul and Singhal (1988). Schriber (1987) presents a summary of the recent advances in GPSS.

Jan 12, 1988

By J. R. Sturgul

Thompson and Adler (1988) present a new simulator for use in designing conveyor belt systems for underground mines. Their model uses a large Fortran program to do a Monte Carlo simulation. Their approach is similar to that done by other researchers, such as Stanford (1965) and Newhart (1977). All Fortran based simulation models use an imaginary clock that is advanced a time increment. At each advance of time increment the program has to determine what is to take place in the system. Since many things can take place at different places in the system, this approach requires that a large amount of logic is needed at each step of the program. This, then, necessitates a great amount of jumping between different portions of the program. In fact, the Fortran program, CMBCS, takes up to 15 to 20 minutes to run on the mainframe and several hours for the PC. Such execution times are typical of Fortran based simulation studies. There have been other examples of Fortran based simulation studies in mining. Cross and Williamson (1969) presented a model of a working open-pit copper mine. Fosinato (1982) presented a model of the bucketwheel excavators for the large open-pit mines in Southern Victoria in Australia. These excavators discharge into a complex conveyor system, which can be thought of as being similar, but more complicated than the one modeled by CMBCS. All previous simulation studies using Fortran as the source code have several things in common: they all are very lengthy, often being of the order of 10,000 lines of code and take a great deal of CPU time to execute. The program of Fosinato takes more than 4.5 hours to run on a large mainframe. Also not mentioned by Thompson and Adler is the actual time it took to write the Fortran code. This, too, can be considerable, as Fosinato's program took several man years to write and de-bug. In order to change it, as the parameters change or as the mine increases, further large amount of time is needed. An alternate to such Fortran based programs is provided by using a special computer language known as General Purpose Simulation System (GPSS). This language is designed to solve a wide variety of discrete event simulation problems and appears to be particularly suited for mining situations as shown by Sturgul and Yi (1 987). Although GPSS was introduced as far back as 1961, it has not been used in mining to any great extent. However, the original form was quite crude and inefficient compared to modem versions. Perhaps with the increasing popularity and availability of these recent versions, this will change. Two such versions are GPSS/H for the mainframe and GPSS/PC for the personal computer. GPSS/H allows for interactive usage, such as allowing input data to be entered via a menu. GPSS/PC has excellent graphical capabilities and one can actually view the simulation in progress. In addition, one can halt the simulation and change values of various parameters. If a particular portion of the simulation is in progress via a concept known as "microwindows." These new versions have greatly increased the potential for using the language for mining situations. Mining applications of GPSS have been given by Sturgul and Yi (1987), Sturgul and Harrison (1987), Sturgul (1987), and Sturgul and Singhal (1988). Schriber (1987) presents a summary of the recent advances in GPSS.

Jan 1, 1987

Allan Gibb, Queensland, Australia (communication to the Secretary*):—It is gratifying that Mr. Edward Keller,' who has clone so much work elucidating the principles of copper-metnllurgy, should have subjected only that portion of our investigation relating to magnetic iron oxide to anything like adverse criticism. Situated as we were on a rnining-camp, it was impossible to undertake work that would cover all the intricate possibilities connected with the materials commonly classed as matte. We therefore began the investigation on matte produced from ores that contained no other components than the sulphides of copper and iron that would be likely to enter into the composition of matte. We were, accordingly, free from ally possibility of magnetic iron oxide entering the matte, unless it were formed in the operation itself. The work done on this subject was incomplete, and the results thereof recorded as giving only negative evidence as to the absence of magnetic iron oxide. It would have been better to have left the matter open, as " not proven." The trend of the investigation was to account for the insufficiency of sulphur in matte to satisfy the requirements of ferrous and cuprous sulphides. So far as our deductions are correct, it was unnecessary to consider the (in our samples) somewhat doubtful constituent, magnetic iron oxide. The mattes that mere investigated were among those mentioned by Mr. Keller, " which scarcely show ally magnetic property." The samples showed no such property. There was no unaccountable variation in the specific gravity, which only varied, as would be expected, with the proportion of ferrous sulphide. I have had experience in smelting ores of which the gangue was a siliceous magnetite, both in blast- and rever-beratory furuace. The mattes so produced contained magnetic

Jan 1, 1908

George A. Packard, Boston, Mass. (communication to the Secretary†):—The very interesting results obtained by Prof. Hofman and his assistants came to my attention when I had temporarily assumed charge of the metallurgical department of the Missouri School of Mines, and had found it, pending the completion of a new building, lacking a furnace in which to roast ore preparatory to the customary lead blast-furnace run. An attempt at lime-roasting had been already determined upon, but the use of a charge which would make a slag of definite composition was a new idea. The results following were obtained by Messrs. Aubrey Fellows, J. C. Long, E. R. Wash, and Dr. T. C. Tseung, under my supervision. It is regretted that the data are not more complete; but the work was done simply incidentally to securing the desired ore for the blast-

Jan 1, 1908

Edward A. UehlinG, New York City (communication to the Secretary*):—Mr. Baker's paper is one that brings up a subject of great importance, and if full statistics could be collectecl of the number of furnace-linings ruined by reason of bad distribution by skip-hoists, it would be found an astonishing array. Unfortunately a universal remedy has not yet been found. The fact that Mr. Baker has apparently succeeded in overcoming the trouble at Sydney, is no guarantee that the same remedy applied at another plant, where very different or even slightly different conditions prevail, mould cure the trouble. That it requires but a slight continuous difference of penetrability in the column of the descending stock of one section, over another, to produce channeling, is clearly demonstrated by Mr. Baker's experiments, by which he reversed the channeling from front to rear instead of remedying the trouble. Every change in the physical make-up of the charge necessarily requires a specific adjustment; even supposing this feasible, the regular working of the furnace is by no means assured, because with the high pressures now customary, the tendency of the ascending gases to plow their way through in a direct course, prevails, and having once opened up a passage, they will persist and cause trouble. Homogeneous filling-, hard driving and regularity of working are incompatible. The higher the furnace, the greater the

Jan 1, 1905

Edward Keller, Baltimore, Md. (communicatioin to the Secretary*):—It is pleasing to note the increasing amount of work on metallurgical problems that is being carried on by exact scientific methods, and the results of such labor issued by the laboratories of our universities. Without doubt, Mr. Bolles's paper will be welcomed by all progressive practitioners. Many of the results which Mr. Bolles presents to as are new; and I take exceptioil to a few minor points only. The first of his concluding remarks is as follows: "Mattes are not homogeneous, but are composed of distinct mineral entitier, and may be likened to igneous rocks, in which the mineral constituents fall out upon the lowering of the temperature and ensuing solidification." He quotes an introductory remark to a paper1 of mine, as follows: "The true chemical character of copper-mattes does not yet seem to have been definitely determined, i.e, it is still more or less of an open question whether they are true chemical compounds, or mixtures, such as igneous rocks." This quotation, taken alone, would convey the impression that Mr. Bolles's conclusion is entirely new. Had he quoted also another paragraph from my paper in question, it would be clear that he was, to a certain extent at least, anticipated. I take the liberty, therefore, to state the substance of my own work. In the paper referred to, I showed the existence of the phenomenon of liquation in mattes, and, continuing, said: " A more direct method to test whether a matte is a compound sulphide or a mixture of individual sulphides was attempted by applying hydraulic separation. A clean piece of matte was selected containing practically no magnetic oxide and of the following composition: Cu, 37.96; S, 24.45; Fe, 33.63; Zn, 1.25; Pb, 1.02 ; Sb, 0.26 ; As, 0.065 ; insoluble, 1.15 per cent. ; Ag, 26.7 ; Au, 0.04 oz. per ton. For such a test it is essential to select a chemically uniform piece, other-

Jan 1, 1905

A discussion of the paper by Mr. Campbell, which was read by title at the Lake Superior meeting, but first presented at the New York meeting of the Iron and Steel Institute, October, 1904 (see p. 772). These papers are here published onder a mutual agreement between the Councils of the two Institutes, and will also be found in the Journal of the Iron and Steel Institute for the year 1901, vol. ii. Mr. William R. Webster, Philadelphia, Pa., said: We are under great obligation to Mr. Campbell for his exhaustive investigation, and the results he has put before us to-day. They are the most conlplete series of tests that have ever been made, where all the conditions of rolling, etc., were kept uniform. In discussing Mr. Campbell's first investigations, I claimed first, that the method of least squares, then used, would of necessity only gire the average value of any element, and that if the effect of any element was greater in the presence of high carbon than with low carbon this would not be shown by the method of least squares. Secondly, that the effect of manga nese should be considered on acid steel as well as on basic steel, instead of ignoring all the eff'ect of that element when it was below 0.60 per cent., as was then recommended by Mr. Campbell. I am pleased to note that the results of his present investigation confirm my views on these points. In presenting the results of his first investigation, Mr. Campbell referred to my investigation of 1893-94, and took exception to the value of phosphorus varying (depending on the amount of carbon present) from 800 to 1,500 lb. for each 0.01 per cent. He claimed that one might just as well consider the effect of phosphorus as being constant, and of carbon varying. I refer to this, as he now has introduced very similar conditions in his present tables, in that he gives variable values for manganese (depending on the amount of carbon present) for both acid and basic' steels. Can we now say, with more certainty than formerly, which element should be considered as haviup a constant effect ? There is one other point that I took up in my former discus-

Jan 1, 1905