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Discussion of the paper of Norman B. Braly, presented at the Butte meeting, August, 1913, and printed in Bulletin No. 80, August, 1913, pp. 1881 to 1906. GEORGE A. PACKARD, Butte, Mont.:-I would like to ask Mr. Braly if he has any information as to the relative efficiency of the sinking pump, using it as he refers to it, discharging the exhaust into the water column or otherwise. MR. BRALY :-I have never gathered any information on that point. It is a question of getting the work done. In driving the shaft, using that method, we find it easier on the men and everything else. In the bottom of the shaft, if you exhaust back into your column, it is a quiet. shaft. Another thing is the freezing: if you are sinking with air in your pump, you will find it is liable to freeze, and in that case as the air is still under compression it will not freeze the pump. The difference is very small if there is any. But, as might be expected, the pump is a little less efficient when exhausting the air into the column. MR. PACKARD :-I suppose all of us know what a pump in the bottom of the shaft is. My experience has been, although I have no figures, that the capacity of a pump is quite considerably decreased if you are pumping, say, from a depth of 200 ft. through a No. 7 Knowles pump, when you exhaust the air into a column, but, on the other hand, it is also my impression that we can raise the water to a little greater distance. I would like to get some figures from somebody who has made actual tests.

Jan 11, 1913

STANDING COMMITTEES. . Executive. CHARLES F. RAND, Chairman. JAMES F. KEMP, JOSEPH W. RICHARDS, , ALBERT R. LEDOUX, BENJAMIN B. THAYER. Membership. BENJAMIN B. THAYER, Chairman. KARL EILERS, JOHN H. JANEWAY, JR.., JOHN D. IRVING, HERMAN A. PROSSER. Finance. EDWARD L. YOUNG, Chairman. KARL EILERS, JAMES GAYLEY. Library. JAMES F. KEMP, Chairman1 JOHN HAYS HAMMOND,3 E. GYBBON SPILSBURY,2 ALEX. C. HUMPHREYS 4 BRADLEY STOUGHTON.

Jan 11, 1913

Discussion of the paper of Max Hebgen, presented at the Butte meeting, August, 1913, and printed in Bulletin No. 80, August, 1913, pp. 1910 to 1933. A MEMBER :-Have there been any definite studies made in the hydrology of this system ? That is to say, what is the total extent and area of the drainage or catchment basin above these plants ? What is the total annual precipitation, and what is the percentage of run off ? That is a very interesting question to engineers and a question engaging a great many, because, unfortunately, there is not the amount of information on that subject which there ought to be.

Jan 11, 1913

Discussion of the paper of Woolsey McA. Johnson, presented at the Butte meeting, August, 1913, and printed in Bulletin No. 79, July, 1913, pp. 1137 to 1145. F. L. GRAMMER, Leesburg, Va. (communication to the Secretary *):-Mr. Johnson's paper must interest by suggestion those connected with the " burning " of lime, the production of cement, and the smelting of iron. All iron men know how quickly the impalpable purple ore of wet origin reduces compared to finely ground red hematites of approximately identical composition obtained from Lake lump ores. Most housekeepers appreciate that the several forms of carbon-charcoal, coke, and anthracite, not to include graphite and diamond -have different temperatures of ignition. The temperature usually rises with the density and hardness. Some of the scientific bureaus of the government might appropriately conduct some tests along lines suggested by Mr. Johnson's article. We are unable to say whether the topic lies within the spheres of activity of the Bureau of Mines, the Bureau of Soils (Agricultural Department), the Geological Survey, or the Bureau of Standards. The calcining qualities of limestone is a topic too wide for individual effort and is of wide enough interest to merit government or State activity. It is of interest, as aforesaid, to burners of lime, cement manufacturers, and smelters. The chemical composition of a limestone does not tell all the story -if over 1-in. size lumps. The limestones of Annville and Myerstown, Pa., break at a tap; those on the Hudson above Poughkeepsie .act like "nigger heads." The manager of lime kilns near Lake Champlain told me his fuel consumption was high compared to that at other points. Yet the Hudson and Annville stones were both of greatest purity, being rivaled by only the marble at Rutland, Vt., or some stones near Martinsburg, W. Va. A local kiln operator says the conglomerate or pudding limestones of Loudoun county, Va., act very differently in the kiln from the more normal limestone deposits nearby. The tilted and twisted bedding in the anthracite region tells the story of hard coal origin. We might therefore expect that the limestones of greater geological age or depth or metamorphism

Jan 11, 1913

Discussion of the paper of Edward Keller, presented at the Butte meeting, August, 1913, and printed in Bulletin No. 80, August, 1913, pp. 2093 to 2115. GEORGE L. HEATH, Hubbell, Mich.:-In the admirable paper quoted, is mentioned the date when the 5-g. assay was first proposed is a standard for refined metal. The author omitted, however, to mention a later paper,1 which contains a proposal for the use of a single " stock solution " of mixed acids, which has been adopted by the American Brass Co. and others. The suggestion is made that such a scheme would save time and manipulation with converter metal. Unless the low current of 0.5 ampere and the large excess of nitric acid, recommended by Mr. Keller, have been proved necessary to hold up antimony-and selenium, the use of the mixed solution which we have adopted will permit the use of 1 ampere of current per square decimeter of cathode surface, until the solutions have become colorless. At this point, we wash the covers and reduce to 0.5 ampere to prevent oxidation or contamination. The ordinary split electrodes have been used. With strong current, at least, the use of an excess of nitric acid tends to the neutralization of the solution before the end of the period, from the formation of too much ammonia., and this is detrimental. Antimony deposits more easily than arsenic, and tends to drag the latter dorm with it. There must, be some such explanation for the fact. that we have made hundreds of deposits of pure cathodes from Lake material containing no antimony, but as. high as 0.5 per cent. of arsenic. By placing an assay beaker in the Frary solenoid, or rotary device, a cathode deposit with less than 0.01 per cent. of impurity is easily obtained in one operation from 3 g. of whitneyite, carrying from 7 to 10 per cent. of arsenic. In such a case, it is necessary to test several times for end point and remove the plate as soon as no brown tint appears (at once) when hydrogen sulphide water is added to the test portion on the spot plate. Edward Keller's proportion,, of solvent figure out as 14 cc. of strong nitric to 11.4 cc. of sulphuric acid (1.84).

Jan 11, 1913

NOMINATIONS FOR OFFICERS. In accordance with the Constitution, Article VII., the following nominations have been prepared by the Nominating Committee, submitted to the Board of Directors at its October meeting, and are hereby published for the information of the members. For Director and President: Benjamin B. Thayer, District 0 For Directors and Vice-Presidents: Herbert C. Hoover, District 6 W. L. Saunders, District 0 For Directors : Reginald W. Brock, District 11 Charles W. Merrill, District 6 Albert R. Ledoux, District 0 Henry L. Smyth, District 1 D. C. Jackling, District 7 The Constitution further provides that " Any complete or partial ticket of nominees signed by any twenty-five Members or Associates of the Institute and transmitted to the Secretary by December 15 shall also be printed and circulated with the official ticket and over the names and with the recommendations of the nominators, together with an expression of opinion of the Board thereon if deemed expedient.

Jan 11, 1913

Discussion of the paper of Willis T. Burns, presented at the Butte meeting, August, 1913, and printed in Bulletin No. 80, August, 1913, pp. 2011 to 2049. PROF. JOSEPH W. RICHARDS, South Bethlehem, Pa.:-I think Mr. Burns spoke of two unusual conditions which he has at his plant, namely, that he uses directly converter anodes and very high current density. He did not mention another condition : the very low cost of power, which circumstance, I believe, is responsible for some of the peculiarities of his plant noticed by us from the East. I am struck by the rather low ampere efficiency which Mr. Burns obtains, and in looking over the plant thought that there was a considerable leakage from one tank to the other, and that the ampere efficiency could be increased by looking after the leakage of electricity front one tank to the other.

Jan 11, 1913

Discussion * of the paper of H. M. Chance, presented at the butte meeting, august, 1913, and printed in bulletin No. 79, July, 1913, pp. 1315 to 1341. George H. Ashley,+ Washington, d. C.:-Mr. Chance's long practical experience in reporting on coal lands admirably fits him for a discussion of the value of such lands. On behalf of the government geologists, I wish to express my appreciation of Mr. Chance's friendly, constructive criticism of the government method of valuing coal land in the first part of his paper and, at the same time, to reply to some queries he makes. All admit that coal has no " intrinsic "-monetary value, in the sense that a pound of coal of certain chemical and physical characters is worth " intrinsically " so many cents or fractions of a cent. The term has, however, been found very useful as including those natural factors of coal value, among which are its position and location in the earth, that affect its sale price in contrast with the other cost elements involved in the labor and capital necessary in mining, preparing, transporting, and selling the coal (extrinsic factors). Mr. Chance, while recognizing the " dual origin of value," does not offer any better terms. The survey agrees with Mr. Chance in his definition of coal conservation, that it means the fuller utilization of the heat contents of the coal, and the more complete recovery of the coal from the ground. Coal land withdrawals have not been made to keep such lands off the market, but to prevent their acquisition as non-coal lands before they could be classified so as to be disposed of under the proper law. Nor has the pricing of the more valuable coal lands above the minimum been to raise money for the reclamation fund, to which the money goes, but primarily to discourage the alienation, for holding or speculation, of coal lands not intended or needed for development, and, secondarily, to secure to the people the ?unearned increment," which they are certain in any case to be charged.

Jan 11, 1913

By R. E. Wade

THE Butte, Anaconda & Pacific electrification is of peculiar interest, in an incidental way, to the entire mining fraternity, and especially the engineering branch, not only in this great Northwest country but throughout the entire Western mining country, which is rich in minerals and water power. It is probably fair to say that the prime object of mining and smelting engineering is to reduce the cost of production, and in the case in hand the relative location of mines and smelter brings the cost of transportation of ore to the front. While some might assign this item to the railway people, it is inseparably a part and parcel of the general scheme of the production of metal from the ore. In considering the electrification of the B., A. &. P. railway the mining and smelting engineer, above all, wants to know what saving will be effected by the change in motive power. Unfortunately the new power has been in use during a very limited period and on the Smelter Hill section of the road only, and no reliable data, from actual service conditions, can be obtained until the entire electrified section has been in service for a reasonable length of time. Any remarks on this subject at the present time, therefore, must of necessity be general in nature and more or less descriptive. The railway, electrical and mining worlds and the country in general are indebted to the B., A. & P. railway for the pioneer work it is now doing, as it undoubtedly marks the beginning of the electrification, within the comparatively near future, of all transcontinental roads between the Missouri river and the Pacific coast. Together with this goes the development of an untold wealth in water power and all natural resources within the same territory. For the first time in the history of electric railway work, in this country, direct current at a potential of 2,400 volts is being used. With this potential there is a great saving in transmission of energy to the locomotives and there are only two substations, one at. either end and 26 miles apart, for supplying the power for the movement of trains of heavy tonnage over the main line and for switching movements at terminal and intermediate yards, and comparatively little feeder copper is required.

Jan 11, 1913

NEW MEMBERS. The following list comprises the names of those persons who became members during the month of October, 1913: Members. BARNES, KENNETT F., Secty Granby Min. & Smelting Co., St. Louis, Mo. BILLINGSLEY, PAUL, Geol 526 Hennessy Bldg., Butte, Mont. BLANCHORD, RALPH C., Geol 3 Lombard St., London, England. BOYLE, ALBERT C., Jr., Prof. of Min. and Met., University of Wyoming, Laramie, Wyo. BRADFORD, JULIUS S., Min. Engr Chiksan Mining Co., Chiksan, Korea: CLEMES, ALFRED W., Min. Engr P. 0. Box 6,88, Moronic, Ariz. COPELAND, DURWARD, Met Cia. Estamifera de Llallagua, Bolivia, So. America. CRAWFORD, JOHN, JR., Mgr Noble Elec. Steel Co., Heroult, Shasta Co., Cal.

Jan 11, 1913

The Library of the above-named Societies is open from 9 A.M. to 9 P.M. on all week-days, except holidays, from September 1 to June 30, and from 9 A.M. to 6 P.M. during July and August. The Library contains about 55,000 volumes, including sets of technical periodicals and the publications of scientific and technical societies. Members of the Institute, with few exceptions, are forced to spend a portion of their time in localities isolated from sources of information. To these the Library can render valuable service through correspondence; letters requesting information will receive special attention. The Library is prepared to furnish references and copies of articles on mining and metallurgical subjects; to determine the existence of mining-maps, and to furnish general information as to the geology and mineral resources of all countries. All communications should be made as definite as possible so that the information received may be what is desired and not include collateral matter which may not be of interest. The time spent in searching for such collateral matter will be saved, and the information will be sent more promptly and in more usable shape. The members of the Institute can be of service to the Library by forwarding copies of mining-reports, maps privately issued, and similar material, which will be classified, indexed, and made available to other members. Suggestions for additions to the Library, either by purchase or personal solicitation as gifts, will be welcomed. It is hoped that members while in the city will use the Library freely, and assurance is given that most careful service will be rendered to them. .

Jan 11, 1913

Discussion of the paper of B. H. Dunshee, presented at the Butte meeting, August, 1913, and printed in Bulletin No. 30, August, 1913, pp. 1511 to 1531. GEORGE E. MOULTHROP, Butte, Mont.:-The recording for the first time by Mr. Dunshee, in a readily usable form, of the various systems of square-set framing applied in the Butte district is a valuable contribution to mining information. The many different methods of framing employed, due to the individual ideas of superintendents and foremen of segregated companies, have given full opportunity to determine the best framing for the conditions as found in these mines, and the final adoption of a system uniform for all the mines has come about through a study of these various methods and an experience covering a period of many years. The sawed 10 by 10 in. and 12 by 12 in. timbers undoubtedly give the best satisfaction; and the style of framing the sawed timber that under all conditions has given the best practical results is that used in the Anaconda group and other mines, described and recommended by Mr. Dunshee. In this framing the posts have a horn 2 in. high and 6 in. square, the cap end having dimensions of 3 by 6 in. Instead of the framed girt shown in the drawings of the Anaconda group, the 6 by 10 in. girt adopted at some other mines, which fits into the cap and post framing with no other preparation than cutting the timber to the necessary length, fills all the necessary requirements for strength and affects a material saving in timber and labor. This, as Mr. Dunshee states, is without doubt the type of framing which would be adopted as a standard for 10 by 10 in. sawed timbers if sawed timber sets were to be used in the future generally. But saw-timber for the mines was becoming scarce and expensive, and round timber for the square sets furnished an alternative which provided, at greatly reduced cost, material which in every way supplied the requirements of the mining conditions. The use of the round timber with a satisfactory framing makes available a conveniently located and large source of supply which up to this time has served no useful industrial purpose. Particularly is this true of small timber, which is still standing in great quantities in the forests where the trees more desirable for commercial purposes have already been cut and marketed.

Jan 11, 1913

Discussion of the paper of C. W. Goodale and J. H. Klepinger, presented at the Butte meeting, August, 1913, and printed in Bulletin No. 50, August, 1913, pp. 1935 to 2010. PROF. JOSEPH W. RICHARDS, South Bethlehem, Pa.:-Mr. Chairman, I would like to call attention to one valuable feature of the paper which may interest some: I have worked a good deal with the Pitot tube, and have always had difficulty with what is called the static end of that apparatus, so much so that I became almost hopeless of securing good results with it. I find here, however, what is stated to be a perfectly satisfactory static end for the Pitot tube, satis factory under probably all conditions. I congratulate Mr. Klepinger on the design of that tube and the consequent improvement he has made in the technical measurement of the volumes of gases. I would also like to ask if the total volume coming out of the chimney per day could not be computed by chemical analyses of the SO and SO2 in the gases, and calculation on the basis of the known weight of.. sulphur going out in a day; so that the Pitot tube measurements . could be checked by a method independent of measurements in the flues. J. H. KLEPINGER :-I think the volume of gases could be determined in that way. Those of a chemical turn of mind would go. about it so, but I am not enough of a chemist to follow that method, and consequently I always look at the mechanical way to obtain the results.

Jan 11, 1913

Discussion of the paper of Blarney Stevens, presented at the Butte meeting, August, 1913, and printed in Bulletin No. 79, July, 1913, pp. 1285 to 1303. F. L. GRAMMER,Leesburg, Va. (communication to the Secretary*):¬ Mr. Stevens refers to an explanation of parallel jointing by W. 0. Crosby, which I noted when reading one of his excellent text books. It seemed to me earthquakes were not a satisfactory explanation, and I looked up several authorities; but I never realized how small the usual amplitudes were until Mr. Stevens presented his paper. Several letters to the U. S. Geodetic Survey showed me there were very few records of tidal movements of earth crust in the United States. Altitude and latitude would be influencing factors; but this diurnal movement must exceed earthquake amplitudes, besides being more nearly universal. My inquiries brought the answer that the major directions of jointing had not been extensively tabulated. If major directions of jointing were recorded-with notes as to angle with mountain chain, or North Star, and distance between joints, with nature of rock and maximum and minimum tidal up-heaval-some interesting relations might be made manifest.

Jan 11, 1913

Discussion of the paper of E. G. Woodruff, presented at the Butte meeting, August, 1913, and printed in Bulletin No. 78, June, 1913, pp. 1001 to 1010. F. A. LINFORTH, Butte, Mont.:-I have not had an opportunity of reading this paper thoroughly, but I would like to call attention to the possible use of the contours on fault planes. It is obvious that if the contours of fault surfaces call be determined, we will be able to determine the axes of the hollows in the fault surface. It seems probable, and there are examples to point to the accuracy of, the assumption, that the axes of these hollows may be the direction of movements on the faults, and if that is true it will aid materially in locating faulted ore bodies or the shoots of ore on the opposite sides of faults. A few such contour maps of faults have been attempted on some of the faults of the Butte district, and those faults which are believed to have the nearly normal movement exhibit for the axes of these hollows a line nearly up and down in the plane of the fault, but in those cases where the throw is believed to bee nearly horizontal we find that the axes of the hollows are almost horizontal lines. In other words, the movements on faults, I believe, would be more nearly indicated by the larger grooves in the fault surfaces than by the small slickensides and minor hollows that are seen, so that contour maps might be valuable in geology in that way. C. W. GOODALE, Butte, Mont.:-I received a letter from Mr. Woodruff asking me to take part in the discussion of his paper, but I have not had time to give the paper any study. I can certainly add my opinion to that of all the engineers here that the topographic maps of the government are of great aid to the engineer. When I visit a new district, the first thing I do is to see if that district has been covered by the U. S. Geological Survey avid if topographic map has been issued. And I find that some of the younger engineers frequently come into my office to see if I have such maps. I know in some cases the reports made out by engineers contain copies of these topographic maps, or clippings from them. I am sure that. the topographic maps furnished by the government are of very great value to our engineers.

Jan 11, 1913

Discussion of the paper of Archer E. Wheeler and Milo W. Krejci, presented at the Butte meeting, August, 1913, and printed in Bulletin No. 80, August, 1913, pp. 1831 to 1880. BRADLEY STOUGHTON, New York, N. Y.:-I would like to ask Mr. Krejci whether they have tried mixing coke dust with the lime in those converters and, if so, if any advantage has been found. It has been a very great advantage in the steel converters where coke dust has been mixed with the lime near the tuyeres. Of course the agent that causes the corrosion at that point is oxide of iron, and coke seems to prevent the formation of the oxide of iron and so protect the tuyeres. It would be interesting to know if it had the same effect in the copper converters. MILO W. KREJCI:-We have never tried it here. At Anaconda the tuyere section was formerly put in by mixing magnesite with tar and ramming that into the tuyere section, but they have abandoned that. Might I ask how you would apply the coke dust? How get it into the tuyere section ? How hold it there ? BRADLEY STOUGHTON :-The coke dust is mixed with silica and clay and then rammed in and burned. I suppose in your converters it would be mixed with the magnetite or magnesite and then agglomerated with the material in place. MILO W. KREJCI:-We never tried it here. PROF. JOSEPH W. RICHARDS, South Bethlehem, Pa.:-I would like to ask how thick this deposit of magnetite is on the lining. How thick a layer would be practical ? MILO W. KREJCI:-About 21 in. would be sufficient. SOLOMON LE FEVRE, Mineville, N. Y.:-I was interested to hear of the use of magnetite in connection with the copper smelter. I am interested in the mining of magnetite, but was not aware that it had been used at all' by the copper metallurgists.

Jan 11, 1913

PRESIDENT. CHARLES F. RAND,1 NEW YORK, N. Y. PAST PRESIDENTS. CHARLES KIRCHHOFF,1 NEW YORK, N. Y. JAMES F. KEMP,2 NEW YORK, N. Y. FIRST VICE-PRESIDENT. BENJAMIN B. THAYER,1 NEW YORK, N. Y. TREASURER. GEORGE C. STONE,' NEW YORK, N. Y. SECRETARY EMERITUS. ROSSITER W. RAYMOND NEW YORK, N. Y. SECRETARY. BRADLEY STOUGHTON NEW YORK, N. Y.

Jan 11, 1913

(Under this heading will be published notes sent to the Secretary of the Institute by members or other persons. ) Position in sales department is open for a mining engineer with experience in mine ventilation and possessing some knowledge of fan design; one competent to lay out ventilating systems to meet various conditions. No. 2. A large company manufacturing mining machinery has an opening in one of its Western agencies for a young mechanical engineer who has had some experience in designing along general machine shop lines, and who is familiar with cost systems. No. 3. A large university desires to secure a prominent metallurgist for a vacant professorship in metallurgy. No. 4. Opening at a mine in New Jersey for a technical graduate to begin work as chairman on the surveying squad. Salary $50 per month to start. No. 5.

Jan 11, 1913

Discussion of the paper of E. J. Hall and C. W. Drury, presented at the Butte meeting, August, 1913, and printed in Bulletin No. 78, June, 1913, pp. 1059 to 1066. A. M. SMOOT,* New York, N. Y. (communication to the Secretary +) :-The nails method is given in many text books on assaying as a standard method for gold or for gold and silver in ores. It appears to be taught in the laboratories of technical and scientific schools as a standard method, and to some extent it is used by assayers in actual practice, although the class of ores to which it may be applied is limited to those free from reducible metallic compounds, the metals of which would enter the lead button. The experiments of Messrs. Hall and Drury show the inaccuracy of this rnethod for silver, in heavy sulphides, but not so clearly the short-comings with regard to gold. It seems certain that low silver is caused by the solubility of silver in iron-alkali sulphide as compared with its solubility in molten lead; that is, silver is distributed between iron-alkali sulphide and metal in the charge in proportion to solubility at the particular temperature of the fusion. Lead is a fixed quantity in these assay charges, but iron-alkali sulphide increases with increased sulphur, so the more sulphur in the charge, the lower the silver results.

Jan 11, 1913

By Ralph Nichols

THE mines are near the town of Gilmore, in the Texas mining district. This district was organized in 1880. The present producing mines are near the terminus of the Gilmore & Pittsburg railroad. This railroad connects with the main line of the Oregon Short Line at Armstead, Mont. The distance from Gilmore to Armstead is 70 miles. The town of Gilmore is near the head of the Lemhi river at an elevation of 7,000 ft., while the mines are from 400 to 1,300 ft. higher. The range of mountains upon which the mines are situated forms the water shed for the Little Lost river on the west and the, Lemhi river on the east. The winters are severe and the snow fall is heavy, but the mines ship right through the year. There is an abundance of timber suitable for all mining purposes in the immediate vicinity. Water is piped into the camp from a lake about 2.5 miles distant. This lake is about 1,400 ft. above the town of Gilmore. The water is exceptionally good for boiler and domestic purposes. The mining companies now producing are. the Pittsburg Idaho Co., Ltd. ; the Latest Out Mining & Smelting Co:, Ltd. ; and the Gilmore Mining Co., Ltd. Besides the above properties, there are a number .of prospects in different stages of development. The producing mines of the district are fissures in limestone, with a general northeast-southwest course .and a dip to the west of from 40° to 70°. These fissures are at about right angles to the bedding of the limestones. The veins are regular and the ore shoots strong, both laterally and in depth, so far as developed. The ore shoots have a rake or pitch to the south. The character of the formation is shown in Fig. 1, a section of the Latest Out mine.

Jan 11, 1913