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By G. F. Leaming

The paper by R.V. Ramani and R.J. Sweigard is a wonderful description of the labyrinthine web that has been spun about the mining industry by energetic bureaucrats and politicians over the past 50 years. The remedy for the problem, however, is not more of the same, but less. That may be difficult for the industry to achieve, for it is not a technical solution but a political one. And the current fervor for more detailed planning at all levels of government and private enterprise has become deeply ingrained. The authors recommend the provision of more information about mining and mineral resources to "macro" (i.e., government) land use planners. They apparently overlook, however, the already strong tendency on the part of most government land use planners to consider themselves omniscient. Thus, giving them more information about the technical problems of mining will only make them want to get more and more involved in the "micro" (private, site specific) mine development and production plans of the individual mining firm. In fact, this has already happened at all levels of jurisdiction from municipal to federal government. Examples are legion. The most effective way to ameliorate the adverse impacts of government land use planning on existing and potential mining operations is to: (1) introduce greater flexibility in the definition of land use zones by local and state governments; (2) adopt realistic and relevant ambient environmental performance standards in governing relationships between mineral land uses and concurrent or subsequent nonmining land uses; (3) allow greater leeway for economic considerations in land use decisions in contrast to the explicit legalistic approach now in vogue; (4) recognize that all minerals are not the same and that sand and gravel mining should not be treated the same as underground metal mining, coal stripping, oil field production, or in situ leaching; and (5) eliminate the notion that mining operators should be responsible for determining in detail the use of land by subsequent owners of mined land. This last bit of conventional ethic really makes no more sense than requiring the builders of every shopping center or government office complex to provide detailed plans for the use of that land when its use for shopping or government is ended. Did the builder of Ebbetts Field plan for Brooklyn after the Dodgers went to Los Angeles? Should the developer of the Bingham Pit plan for suburban Salt Lake City after the copper mining goes to Chile? The nation's mining industry must address these questions before further bankrupting itself to provide more data to planners and spending thousands of dollars per acre to create land that when reclaimed is worth only a few hundred dollars per acre. ? Reply by R.V. Ramani and R.J. Sweigard We thank Mr. Learning for his valuable contribution. His views on the problems of land use planning and mineral resources are most welcome additions to our paper. As the title indicates, our paper was more concerned with the impacts of land use planning on mineral resource conservation than with the details of the planning process. On the whole, his five recommendations would be helpful for mineral resource conservation. However, we would suggest that the argument he presents for his final recommendation does not address the differences between mining as a land use and commercial or institutional uses. We believe that this difference is the crux of the issue. We share Mr. Learning's desire to ameliorate the adverse impacts of land use planning. Possibly the most detrimental impact is the loss of mineral resources. Any development, whether mineral or community, that does not give proper consideration to other resources can result in permanent loss or sterilization of resources. With proper planning, some of these losses can be avoided. As our paper indicated, one factor that limits the consideration of mineral resources, and ultimately leads to their sterilization, is the generally inadequate levels of resource characterization and understanding of the unique nature of mineral resources and mining operations. The last point raised by Mr. Learning is also important. In terms of reclamation and land use planning in mining districts, we certainly do not advocate spending more than what the results are worth. The main thrust of the paper was to explore the avenues for conserving the mineral resources so that, at some appropriate time, the issue of mining and reclamation can still be addressed. ?

Jan 1, 1986

By Harmon E. Keyes

Harmon E. Keyes (Chemical & Metallurgical Engineer, Eagar, Ariz.)-Chemical dissolution of chalcocite by acidic ferric sulfate is well known. Resulting elemental sulfur may be oxidized to sulfuric acid by heated ferric sulfate. Laboratory tests at Southwest Experiment Station, USBM, Tucson, generally confirmed stoichiometric relations of 1 part Cu dissolved to 1.750 parts ferric iron reduced, using CP chemicals, dried ore samples, and apparatus cleaned with potable water. Recirculation with open-drainage percolation to increase copper in leaching solvent was followed successfully when appropriate, both in laboratory and Pinto Valley pilot tests. Before 1924 attempts to produce ferric sulfate by aerating ferrous sulfate solution were known. Initial oxidation was satisfactory, but rate slowed below practicality as oxidation progressed and acidity increased. Also, due to hydrolysis of ferric sulfate, a ferric precipitate of hydroxide and basic sulfate resulted. Both laboratory and pilot plant tests gave similar results, regardless of whether CP ferrous sulfate or scrap iron cementation discard solution was used. Rapid oxidation of ferrous hydroxide by air alone is well known to analytical chemists. I demonstrated a process to produce acidic ferric sulfate solutions by precipitating ferrous hydroxide with milk of lime, aerat-

Jan 1, 1973

H. H. Bleakney (Dept. of Mines and Technical Surveys, Ottawa, Canada)— The work of Dr. Machlin and his colleagues at Columbia University is so scholarly that one hesitates to take issue with them. Nevertheless the writer feels compelled to enter a demurrer to the mechanism of intercrystalline cracking proposed in this paper. The principal obstacle to its acceptance is found in its preoccupation with purely mechanical influences and its disregard for the chemical effect of impurities. The writer believes that the destruction of metallic cohesion by concentration of impurities at the grain boundaries is a necessary and sufficient condition for the development of intercrystalline cracking; and he believes that discussion of the numerous mechanical explanations proposed should wait until some valid objection to the chemical hypothesis has been advanced. It is nearly twenty years since Gillett" drew attention to the possibility that the chemical influence of precipitation might be the cause of intercrystalline cracking. As early as 1935, Greenwood'" remarked that grain-boundary precipitation of impurities in lead appeared to promote intercrystalline cracking. Again in 1939, Scott commented as follows on a paper by Thielemann and Parker:'" "There are at least two familiar phenomena that can influence grain-boundary cohesion: 1) intergranular oxidation; and 2) grain boundary precipitation. An important consideration in this work, therefore, is to determine which, if either, of these factors is responsible for the low values of cohesive strength observed." In 1952. the writer presented evidence," some original and some abstracted, which indicated that in copper, silver, aluminum, lead and iron, intergranular cohesion was a function of the purity of the metal. In 1954 Glen, discussing a paper by Ridley and Tapsell14 indicated his belief in a precipitation mechanism for the intercrystalline embrit-tlement of molybdenum steel and suggested that with an absolutely pure metal it would be almost impossible to obtain an intercrystalline crack. This suggestion has

Jan 1, 1959

By C. H. Gerould

I would like to take a moment to consider our polystyrene-silica replica technique, which was developed at the Dow Chemical Co. and which was mentioned in the paper just given by Mr. Thielsch. He stated that he feared that our replica technique would cause difficulty due to deformation of the metal as a result of the application of pressure during the molding process. We at the Dow have never had any reason to suspect that any deformation of the metal was occurring during the molding process. Our procedure has been to heat the polystyrene to a temperature of 160°C. before applying any pressure, at which temperature the polystyrene is a viscous liquid. By so doing the pressure of the polystyrene against the metal is essentially hydraulic and is therefore applied equally in all directions, which we feel should not cause deformation. Our work using this replica technique has brought forth several indications that deformation of the specimen is negligible. These indications are: I. Direct comparisons have been made between the light and electron microscopes when studying a specific spot on a metal surface. These "same spot" studies were obtained by first taking micrographs at high magnification, with a light microscope, of a specific structure that could be readily recog-

Jan 1, 1947

M.S. Azun I have many objections to the content of the author's paper. Before discussing it, however, I would like to repeat the property of semivariogram function. Second order stationary properties of regionalized variables (ReV's) such as semivariogram function y(h) are perfectly known in geostatistics. Also, the kriging equations in the language of mathematical statistics using second order stationary properties are well understood. However, the way to use the sample (estimated) semivariogram function in any one of the kriging procedures is vague. The sample semivariogram function is given as follows: [ ] where N is the total number of samples, Xi is the sample value at the i - th location, Xi+h is the sample value at the i + h - th location, and h is the distance among the samples. An estimation variance of sample semivariogram function of first lag is smaller than that of higher order lag. The theoretical semivariogram function reaches the variance of samples asymptotically. But this is not easily observable because of the larger variation involved in the estimate of semivariogram function. In general, an estimation procedure is done for h = 0, 1, 2, up to the greatest integer less than N/2, even though sample semivariogram function can be computable through N-1. After estimating semivariogram function, the critical question of how to model sample semivariogram function arises. As seen in the above equation, sample semivariogram function is discrete and can be smoothed by the model being selected. Therefore, modeling of sample semivariogram function is the most important step in geostatistics. It not only smoothes a discrete function but also affects the results of the kriging procedure. When the only aim is to model the semivariogram function, which is the basic point of the author's paper, one can employ any fitting techniques, such as curve fitting, or any arbitrary functions, which are called submodels in the paper. The term "arbitrary function" is used rather than "submodel" because there is no basic understanding of developing them. The author suggests that the sum of those submodels can also be used for the modeling of sample semivariogram function. The combination of any arbitrary functions brings many problems instead of giving an insight of the domain structure considered. The author used two arbitrary functions and the nugget effect in response to sample semivariogram function (Fig. 10). For the same example, he stated that the parameters involved in the mixed arbitrary function model can be accepted when the discrepancy between sample semivariogram function and the model is small visually. For verifying the fitting behavior of any selected model, one should not be contented with the visual satisfactory. Some statistical measure such as goodness of fit has to be used. The author's practice is no more than an exercise in curve fitting without any fundamental understanding or conceptualization of the underlying physical mechanism. Furthermore, the selection of any model is not an easy task if the purpose is the search for the "best" response to the observed second order properties of ReV's. I suggest that the Markovian model (Azun, 1983), on the basis of a theoretical understanding of underlying mechanism, which gives more information about the occurrence of regionalized variables, is used to respond all properties of ReV's. There are a lot of problems for modeling of one-dimensional sample semivariogram function. Thus, it is not appropriate to go to higher order dimensional sample semivariogram function modeling. In the meantime, I would recommend that one can connect the values of standardized sample semivariogram function rather than simple values of semivariogram function in the two-dimensional estimation. The standardized values can be computed in dividing the semivariogram function value by the number of sample pairs involved in each lag regardless of the directions. In conclusion, geostatistics is an interdisciplinary area in mining that uses the principles of mathematical statistics. Thus, it should not violate any probabilistic and statistical rules. When Matheron was developing the theory of geostatistical study in the early years of geostatistics, many mining people had a reservation accepting the geostatistical tools. However, this does not mean that we, the geostatisticians, might try to convince those people using some "strange" tools or rules as some authors implied (Baafi and Kim, 1984). Instead, we have to develop and explain the geostatistical tools staying only in the framework of statistical concepts and properties. References Azun, M.S., 1983, "Stochastic Process Modeling of Spatially Distributed Geostatistical Data," Columbia University, Ph.D. Thesis. Baafi, E.Y., and Kim, Y.C., 1984, "Discussion - Comparison of Different Ore Reserve Estimation Methods Using Conditional Simulation," Mining Engineering, Vol. 36, No. 3, p. 280. Reply by J.M. Rendu The interactive method proposed by Rendu allows practitioners to develop semivariogram models that take into account not only the numerical information obtained by sampling, but also highly significant additional information that often cannot be quantified. The geology of the deposit - including hypotheses concerning its genesis, sampling methods, assaying methods, and mathematical methods used to calculate the semivariograms - all have an influence on the numerical results obtained and on how these results should be interpreted. If all the information concerning the spatial distribution of values in a mineral deposit was contained in the sample values, it could be argued that statistical techniques alone would produce optimum models. However, this is rarely, if ever, the case. Methods that allow the user to take into account his experience and his geologic understanding of the deposit should not be rejected for the sake of theoretical statistical purity.

Jan 11, 1985

By M. S. Azun

M.S. Azun I have many objections to the content of the author's paper. Before discussing it, however, I would like to repeat the property of semivariogram function. Second order stationary properties of regionalized variables (ReV's) such as semivariogram function ?(h) are perfectly known in geostatistics. Also, the kriging equations in the language of mathematical statistics using second order stationary properties are well understood. However, the way to use the sample (estimated) semivariogram function in any one of the kriging procedures is vague. The sample semivariogram function is given as follows: [1 N-hy*(h) = 2(N h) i21 {Xi-Xi+h}Z, h=0, 1, N-1] where N is the total number of samples, Xi is the sample value at the i - th location, X i+h is the sample value at the i +h - th location, and h is the distance among the samples. An estimation variance of sample semivariogram function of first lag is smaller than that of higher order lag. The theoretical semivariogram function reaches the variance of samples asymptotically. But this is not easily observable because of the larger variation involved in the estimate of semivariogram function. In general, an estimation procedure is done for h = 0, 1, 2,…., up to the greatest integer less than N/2, even though sample semivariogram function can be computable through N-1. After estimating semivariogram function, the critical question of how to model sample semivariogram function arises. As seen in the above equation, sample semivariogram function is discrete and can be smoothed by the model being selected. Therefore, modeling of sample semivariogram function is the most important step in geostatistics. It not only smoothes a discrete function but also affects the results of the kriging procedure. When the only aim is to model the semivariogram function, which is the basic point of the author's paper, one can employ any fitting techniques, such as curve fitting, or any ar¬bitrary functions, which are called submodels in the paper. The term "arbitrary function" is used rather than "submodel" because there is no basic understanding of developing them. The author suggests that the sum of those submodels can also be used for the modeling of sample semivariogram function. The combination of any arbitrary functions brings many problems instead of giving an insight of the domain structure considered. The author used two arbitrary functions and the nugget effect in response to sample semivariogram function (Fig. 10). For the same example, he stated that the parameters involved in the mixed arbitrary function model can be accepted when the discrepancy between sample semivariogram function and the model is small visually. For verifying the fitting behavior of any selected model, one should not be contented with the visual satisfactory. Some statistical measure such as goodness of fit has to be used. The author's practice is no more than an exercise in curve fitting without any fundamental understanding or conceptualization of the underlying physical mechanism. Furthermore, the selection of any model is not an easy task if the purpose is the search for the "best" response to the observed second order properties of ReV's. I suggest that the Markovian model (Azun, 1983), on the basis of a theoretical understanding of underlying mechanism, which gives more information about the occurrence of regionalized variables, is used to respond all properties of ReV's. There are a lot of problems for modeling of onedimensional sample semivariogram function. Thus, it is not appropriate to go to higher order dimensional sample semivariogram function modeling. In the meantime, I would recommend that one can connect the values of standardized sample semivariogram function rather than simple values of semivariogram function in the two-dimensional estimation. The standardized values can be computed in dividing the semivariogram function value by the number of sample pairs involved in each lag regardless of the directions. In conclusion, geostatistics is an interdisciplinary area in mining that uses the principles of mathematical statistics. Thus, it should not violate any probabilistic and statistical rules. When Matheron was developing the theory of geostatistical study in the early years of geostatistics, many mining people had a reservation accepting the geostatistical tools. However, this does not mean that we, the geostatisticians, might try to convince those people using some "strange" tools or rules as some authors implied (Baafi and Kim, 1984). Instead, we have to develop and explain the geostatistical tools staying only in the framework of statistical concepts and properties. ? References Azun, M.S., 1983, "Stochastic Process Modeling of Spatially Distributed Geostatistical Data," Columbia University, Ph.D. Thesis. Baafi, E.Y., and Kim, Y.C., 1984, "Discussion - Comparison of Different Ore Reserve Estimation Methods Using Conditional Simulation," Mining Engineering, Vol. 36, No. 3, p. 280. Reply by J.M. Rendu The interactive method proposed by Rendu allows practitioners to develop semivariogram models that take into account not only the numerical information obtained by sampling, but also highly significant additional information that often cannot be quantified. The geology of the deposit - including hypotheses concerning its genesis, sampling methods, assaying methods, and mathematical methods used to calculate the semivariograms - all have an influence on the numerical results obtained and on how these results should be interpreted. If all the information concerning the spatial distribution of values in a mineral deposit was contained in the sample values, it could be argued that statistical techniques alone would produce optimum models. However, this is rarely, if ever, the case. Methods that allow the user to take into account his experience and his geologic understanding of the deposit should not be rejected for the sake of theoretical statistical purity. ?

Jan 1, 1986

By R. E. Crater

Brown, Gaudin, and Loeb in their study of intergranular comminution by heating attempt to find one explanation for all types of rock in terms of the properties of the phases present. The only necessary condition for intergranular cracking by heating is the setting up of high stresses at the grain boundaries. Such stresses may be set up in multiphase isotropic mixtures if the thermal expansions of the phases are different, in non-cubic single phases because of the anisotropy of thermal expansion in the various crystallographic directions, and in materials containing quartz because of the a-ß transformation at 575°C. In addition, for intergranular comminution by heating, the cooling and not the heating is most important.

Jan 3, 1959

By R. D. Longyear

[Some Problems Involved in the Interpretation of Diamond-drill-hole Sampling and Surve ing (paper by J. J. Collins, Mining Tech., Jan. 1946). ............... I Geologic Interpretation of Magnetic Exploration on the Mesabi Range, Minnesota (paper by R. H. B. Jones, Mining Tech., July 1946) ................... 2] DISCUSSION R. D. LONGYEAR.*-Mr. Collins is to be commended very highly for the brief summary he has made of the currently used methods of taking diamond-drill sludge samples and the principles involved in evaluating the results. This paper should stimulate further discussion and research on this vitally important problem. It is particularly imperative that geologists and engineers know when assay results on sludge recovery can be accepted quantitatively and when they must be considered only qualitatively. In most cases where the sludge recovery is less than 95 per cent or more than 125 per cent, it is safest to consider the assays as of qualitative value only. Certain cases, however, are known where a relatively small proportion of the sludge sampling will give a reasonably accurate measure of the value of the total sample. One such case is ore in which the valuable mineral is of approximately the same specific gravity as the waste mineral, such as chalcopyrite in a massive pyrite body. The essential point is to determine the degree of accuracy of sludge sampling in any given drilling project and to weigh the results accordingly. It should be emphasized, however, that sludge sampling can be made reliable in many localities where careless practice produces unreliable results. In many instances, it is desirable to empty the core barrel in the core shack instead of at the drill, so that the engineer can examine the core as it first comes from the core barrel. It should be pointed out, however, that the drill * E. J. Longyear Co., Minneapolis, Minnesota. runner should be permitted to study the core to guide his future drilling. It is hoped that with the return of more normal conditions after the war geologists, engineers, contractors, and manufacturers will be able to carry on more research along the lines of improved core-barrel design and drilling technique with the objective of increasing core recovery so as to eliminate as far as possible the necessity of relying upon sludge samples. H. M. ROBERTS.*-Whoever in the future will have to do with the search for ore bodies and their exploration will have frequent occasion to refer to the clear and comprehensive summary on diamond-drilling methods by John Collins. His review of the experience of the last 40 years in this technique is invaluable. As Dr. L. D. Ricketts wrote in 1932, "The principles on which an art is founded are usually few and necessarily basic in nature, but he who wishes to achieve the power to select his aides and give success to important undertakings that may be intrusted to him in the future must ordinarily undergo years of drudgery in order to gain the experience that will enable him to distinguish such fundamentals through the haze of reinforcing detail that clothes and tends to disguise them."[t] Ricketts went on to say that since the beginning of the century there has been much

Jan 1, 1946

Joseph K. Stone, Jr. (Kaiser Engineers, Oakland, Calif.)—I would like to compliment the authors on their clear presentation of the results of their study of the pneumatic processes. We hope that the Inland Management decision to make this information available to all will induce others to release additional valuable fundamental data which they have accumulated in the field. There are two points upon which we would like to comment. In the discussion of Table VII it was indicated that the "oxygen consumptions were about the same as has been reported for other oxygen steelmaking processes". This conclusion is apparently based upon the consumption of 2100 cu ft per ton shown in Table VII. The data in Table IV also permits calculation of 2520, 2280, 2250 and 2700 cu ft per ton in heats 1 to 4, respectively. These figures are in the same general range as those reported for the Kal-Do and Rotor Processes using Thomas iron, but considerably above the following figures for four of the operating L-D Process Plants while using iron which is similar to American basic iron: Donawitz 1760 cu ft per ton Adapted from Cuscoleca' LinZ 1900 cu ft per ton Trenkler & Hauttmann2 Dofasco 1850 cu ft per ton D. O. Davis:3 In addition to the differences between the consumption of gaseous oxygen in the Inland operation and in the L-D Process, there is another closely related difference. The L-D plants for which data are cited are using approximately 1 pct ore while the authors' process used about 7 pct of sinter. Assuming 65 pct Fe in the sinter, the difference amounts to 400 to 500 cu ft

Jan 1, 1959

The apparent small effect of skimming on desulphurization is somewhat misleading because the data was collected during the first months of use on the skimmer. During this period of time, the operators were, of course, just learning to use the equipment and, consequently, in many cases a so-called skimmed heat may have only been partially skimmed. In addition, during this period, the percentage of sulphur in the blast furnace slag was gradually increasing because of the increasing oil injection rates being employed at the blast furnace. An additional factor that cannot be disregarded is the apparent slower slag formation rate obtained in the BOF when the blast furnace slag is removed. This is evidenced at our shop by a much stronger tendency toward sparking and related lance skulling problems with deslagging, in spite of satisfactory manganese levels in the hot metal. Naturally, slower slag formation could account for poor desulphurization which would partially offset the beneficial effect of a lower sulphur input.

Jan 1, 1972

L.R. Bower In regard to the paper by J.B. Gwiazda, it makes a highly technical approach to show that the µ factor used by designers of lemniscate-guided roof supports has never really been confirmed as a maximum and assumes that convergence is vertical. Also, the paper does not appear to take into account deflection of structures, which occurs when the lemniscate and base members are fully loaded to their maximum stress level, nor the front to back line of the support in relation to differential roof to floor movements caused by strata movements under pressure. It is not unusual for differential movements to be slightly diagonal to the line of the support, particularly in faulted areas and on gradient faces. The paper also does not take into account consolidation of fines immediately above and below the support. Generally speaking, any differential movement is from face to waste and under these conditions the µ of 0.3, which appears to be an international standard, has worked in practice. However, if the face end of the support is lower than the waste end, then the µ of 0.3 can be considerably increased, giving rise to the damage mentioned in the paper. The ideal design should aim for a slightly forward bias in the lemniscate guide so that the last increment of setting is toward the face, tending to close any fissures that may have developed during the support advance cycle. The support should also be fitted with positive set valves to ensure that a high setting load density is attained to minimize bed separation. As far as powered supports are concerned, convergence is irresistible and all powered supports converge at their rated yield load. A similar principle can be applied to the differential roof to floor movements to drastically reduce the very high forces that would otherwise be applied to the lemniscate structures and pins and that, in turn, are transferred to the base arrangement and floor loading. Any differential movements are usually catered for by the 0.3 µ factor or deflection of structures in the lemniscate guide arrangement and consolidation of the floor. The floor loading, due to differential movement, is in addition to the support convergence load and requires additional bearing area to avoid possible floor penetration. Some seven years ago, Fletcher Sutcliffe Wild Ltd. (FSW) introduced a lemniscate-guided shield support where the lemniscate linkage is connected to the roof bar through two horizontally converging rams to allow differential movement to take place above a given rated figure. This is a known force and can be guarded against, whereas with rigid connections the forces, as yet, are unconfirmed. By careful design, a horizontal force in excess of 6 MN (60 tons) opposes differential movements for a total ram loading of only 2.5 MN (25 tons), or 1.25 MN (12% tons) each. This principle can considerably reduce the length and weight of the support in comparison with a rigid pin-type structure ; also, the yield load rating can be increased without affecting the lemniscate forces. The graph shows the tensile and compressive forces in a lemniscate linkage of a support with and without hydrostore. These forces react into both the roof beam and base members and, as can be seen from the support height to linkage load graph, a considerable reduction in these reactions is gained by the use of the FSW patented hydrostore system. Floor loading is considerably reduced under maximum µ conditions, and by allowing the roof bar to move with the strata, some degree of improvement to strata control is achieved in line with the assumptions in the paper. In practice, these movements have only been in the region of a few millimeters, which, in turn, reflects on the improvements to strata control by the addition of positive set valves. Supports to this design of both 450- and 280-t (496-and 309-st) rating have been successfully used in the United Kingdom for several years, negotiating many faulted areas without one single reported need for repair or maintenance. This includes supports left unattended during the year-long strike, proving the reliability of the system.

Jan 8, 1986

By Harlowe Hardinge

[Crushing Tests by Pressure and Impact (T.P. 1895, by F. C. BOND,, Min. Tech. Jan. 1946). Discussion by H. HARDINGE and the author 1 Pumping Sands, Slurries and Slimes and Installation and Performance of Sand Pumps (T.P. 2013, by W. B. STEPHENSON, Min. Tech., May 1946 and T.P. 1978, by C. G. SOUTHMAYD, Min. Tech., March 1946). Discussion by OSCAR LEE, G. J. HOLT, L. D. ANDERSON, and the author 2 Rapid Polarographic Method for Determination of Copper, Zinc and Lead in Flotation Tailings (T.P. 2010, by G. A. CROWE and W. T. BISHOP, Min. Tech., March 1946). Discussion by E. H. ROSE and the authors 4 Ball Wear and Functioning of the Ball Load in a Fine-grinding Ball Mill (T.P. 1984, by W. I. GARMS and J. L. STEVENS, Min. Tech., March 1946). Discussion by J. F. MYERS, E. W. DAVIS, F. M. JARDINE, H. HARDINGE, F. C. BOND and the authors 5 Correlation between Mineral Behavior in Cataphoresis and Flotation (T.P. 2005, by A. M. GAUDIN and S. C. SuN, Min. Tech., May 1946). Discussion by 0. C. RALSTON, G. L. SIMARD and D. J. SALLEY 7 Accident Experience in Milling (T.P. 1981, by J. F. MYERS and S. E. SHARP, Min. Tech., May 1946). Discussion by C. E. MCKNIGHT, C. H. BENEDICT, T. S. WILSON and S. POWER WARREN9 Mill Design for Labor Economy (T.P. 1997, by NORMAN WEISS, Min. Tech., May 1946). Discussion by R. S. HANDY and the author13] Crushing Tests by Pressure and Impact (0.C. Ralston presiding) HARLOWE HARDINGE.*-Has the impact method described in the paper been used to compare the resistance to reduction in size of various materials with actual operation results of mills in the field? Is this impact method a better index of the true resistance to grinding under actual field conditions than other methods the author has reported in the TRANSACTIONS? F. C. BOND (author's reply).-The impact crushing device was designed to measure relative resistance to crushing, or what may be called the crushability, and is not used for comparing the resistance to grinding, or grindability. The correlation between crushability and grindability of different materials is not at all close, since fractures, zones of weakness, and structural features of rock have a much greater effect upon the crushability than upon the grindability. We still depend upon our standard grindability tests for measuring resistance to grinding, and use the impact crushing tests only in relation to crusher installations. The impact crushing device has several advantages over the measurement of crushing strength in pounds per square inch as an index of crushing resistance.

Jan 1, 1946

By A. D. Mutch

This contribution is prompted by the fact that the writer has recently published an article" which has in part the same general conclusions as B. S. Butler's, namely, the form of the standard mineral paragenesis in hypogene deposits and the parallel transition from early high temperature acid to late low temperature alkaline or neutral solutions. Since the writer also recognizes that he is not fully qualified to discuss the formation of ore deposits as a chemical problem, this discussion will be limited to summarizing other observations and will suggest how Butler's Table II might be made more effective. The form of Butler's table is not unlike that widely used by European geologists30 in which the various minerals are related to the types of ore fluids-pegmatitic, pneumatolic and hydrothermal. Thus the decrease in temperature and change in pH of the ore- bearing fluids as recognized by Butler may also be paralleled by perhaps even greater changes in composition, density, and character.

Jan 5, 1958

By A. G. Mayton, L. Adler

The paper under discussion provides an excellent and concise study of compartment ergonomics for thin seam equipment. However, in accomplishing this, some very important operational aspects were ignored. Since these are likely to be determinant, the authors' response is solicited. The novel shuttle car with its cross-car, end-mounted compartment is operationally very different from the current one. The latter can be considered a highly mobile extension of the continuous miner or loader, with a pass-through conveyor, dump boom, and extra storage. As such, the vehicle's kinematics are the simple "I," or shuttle pattern, bent for going around pillars, with an intermediate stop at the "change-out point" (Adler, 1986 ). The action of the cable reel adjusts well to this pattern. The proposed shuttle car's motion either superimposes a "Y," time is lost (5 seconds) for each cycle, space is needed, line of sight is compromised, and a cable anchor is probably required at the dump. A chute is almost prohibitive in construction time and cost. The lack of a dump boom further curtails flexibility in the proposal. The value of a standard hand and opposite standard hand configuration also needs consideration. Many front-end loaders have a rocker (overshot) capability that is designed to achieve an "I” pattern. And crawler loaders sometimes use a side dumping bucket variant for the same purpose. These examples indicate the pattern's importance. For underground, thin seam application, the ram car has become popular. This is an articulated truck, battery-powered, and with an ejector dump. Its operational patterns would be similar to the novel shuttle car, except without the loading flexibility provided by a conveyor. Since the cab location of the proposed shuttle car largely obviates some of the major advantages of the present shuttle car, the question arises whether this configuration could be adapted to the current ram car and scoop

Jan 1, 1991

Edward A. UehlinG, New York City (communication to the Secretary*):—Mr. Baker's paper is one that brings up a subject of great importance, and if full statistics could be collectecl of the number of furnace-linings ruined by reason of bad distribution by skip-hoists, it would be found an astonishing array. Unfortunately a universal remedy has not yet been found. The fact that Mr. Baker has apparently succeeded in overcoming the trouble at Sydney, is no guarantee that the same remedy applied at another plant, where very different or even slightly different conditions prevail, mould cure the trouble. That it requires but a slight continuous difference of penetrability in the column of the descending stock of one section, over another, to produce channeling, is clearly demonstrated by Mr. Baker's experiments, by which he reversed the channeling from front to rear instead of remedying the trouble. Every change in the physical make-up of the charge necessarily requires a specific adjustment; even supposing this feasible, the regular working of the furnace is by no means assured, because with the high pressures now customary, the tendency of the ascending gases to plow their way through in a direct course, prevails, and having once opened up a passage, they will persist and cause trouble. Homogeneous filling-, hard driving and regularity of working are incompatible. The higher the furnace, the greater the

Jan 1, 1905

F. E. Bachman, Port Henry, N. T. (communication to the Secretary*):—In discussing Mr. o.o.Laudig's paper, the Action of Blast-Furnace Gases Upon Various Iron-Ores,' I took the ground that Mesabi-ore explosions were entirely mechanical; but more observation and later experience has caused me to

Jan 1, 1905

Theo. B. ComstocK, Los Angeles, Cal. (communication to the Secretary*):—Mr. Blake's recent paper upon this topic undoubtedly partly explains the rationale of a part of the known facts bearing upon discolorat'ion and encrustation of rocks. His quotation from Humboldt, with reference to certain South American examples, may be questioned in the light of further facts, which do not appear to bear out the great traveler's theory of causation. There is no available evidence that the waters of the tropical rivers referred to by Professor Blake contain dissolved organic matter in the varying proportions required to demonstrate Humboldt's guess, nor do the concomitant facts in any manner bear out the hypothesis that the blackening in one case and its absence in the other may, perhaps, be traced to differences in the chemical reactions of the respective waters. Careful consideration of Professor Blake's illustrations, in connection with numerous personal observations extending over widely-scattered areas, convinces me that elements of

Jan 1, 1905

H. W. Turner, Portland, Ore. (communication to the Secretary*) :—Mr. Brown's paper on the complicated groups of veins exposed in the workings of the Bodie mine forme a valuable contribution to the literature of the structural features of ore-depoeits. It is much to be desired that managers should put into print the results of their observations of the mines under their charge. These observations, as well as data of production, kind of ores, etc., usually accumulate for years, and unless the mining geologists of the Geological Survey happen along before the mine is worked out, such data seldom get into print. About the year 1899 I went through the mines at Bodie with R. C. Turner, then superintendent, and made some notes on the veins and gangue-minerals, and collected some specimens. Mr. Brown refers to crystals of feldspar (albite) found on fragments of quartz on the surface. I collected a number of specimens of these crystals, mostly from Queen Bee hill, and

Jan 1, 1909

A discussion of the paper by Mr. Campbell, which was read by title at the Lake Superior meeting, but first presented at the New York meeting of the Iron and Steel Institute, October, 1904 (see p. 772). These papers are here published onder a mutual agreement between the Councils of the two Institutes, and will also be found in the Journal of the Iron and Steel Institute for the year 1901, vol. ii. Mr. William R. Webster, Philadelphia, Pa., said: We are under great obligation to Mr. Campbell for his exhaustive investigation, and the results he has put before us to-day. They are the most conlplete series of tests that have ever been made, where all the conditions of rolling, etc., were kept uniform. In discussing Mr. Campbell's first investigations, I claimed first, that the method of least squares, then used, would of necessity only gire the average value of any element, and that if the effect of any element was greater in the presence of high carbon than with low carbon this would not be shown by the method of least squares. Secondly, that the effect of manga nese should be considered on acid steel as well as on basic steel, instead of ignoring all the eff'ect of that element when it was below 0.60 per cent., as was then recommended by Mr. Campbell. I am pleased to note that the results of his present investigation confirm my views on these points. In presenting the results of his first investigation, Mr. Campbell referred to my investigation of 1893-94, and took exception to the value of phosphorus varying (depending on the amount of carbon present) from 800 to 1,500 lb. for each 0.01 per cent. He claimed that one might just as well consider the effect of phosphorus as being constant, and of carbon varying. I refer to this, as he now has introduced very similar conditions in his present tables, in that he gives variable values for manganese (depending on the amount of carbon present) for both acid and basic' steels. Can we now say, with more certainty than formerly, which element should be considered as haviup a constant effect ? There is one other point that I took up in my former discus-

Jan 1, 1905

Albert Ladd Colby, New York, N. Y. (communication to the Secretary†):—I observed (Trans., xxxvii., 585) that to obtain tenders from several American mills, the foreign engineer should modify his maximum phosphorus to 0.10 per cent., not as Mr. E. Windsor Richards quotes me, that no American rail-maker can produce rails under 0.10 per cent. of phosphorus. Mr. Richards claims that no English engineer would agree to accept 0.10 per cent. of phosphorus on any terms whatever. Mr. Webster writes that only after an engineer has .been convinced that rails can be made in America equal in every respect to those he is getting abroad, should he be asked to modify ally conditions in his specifications. I know it to be a fact that during recent years in many cases, as, for instance, When delivery could be secured more promptly in the United States than in Europe, the consulting engineers of several British and colonial railroads have frequently agreed to modify their phosphorus requirement to a maximum of 0.10 per cent., and the rails delivered' under these modified specifications have, under like conditions, given just as satisfactory service and proved to be no more brittle than similar sections of 0.07 per cent. phosphorus rails, rolled in England under the same specification except without modification as to phosphorus. Furthermore, it would appear from the analyses of British rails, quoted by E. A. Dancaster,2 in his discussion of Mr.

Jan 1, 1908